Hawkeye Review S1E4: We're Friends Slash Partners + Special Guest THE Rob Logan

Last week's episode of Hawkeye brought in more than just holiday cheer! Between coin flips, security trips, and hard hits, we've got a lot to tackle, but fortunately, THE Rob Logan is joining us to dive into it all!

Trey: Hello and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel cinematic
universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude, how are you doing Trey?

Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited because we
get to welcome back a guest who needs at

least two more guest spots for us to cover
all their creative endeavors, whether it's

brief news updates in the geek space or
long form analysis of movies and TV shows.

We're delighted to welcome back the
creatively geeky, mind the Rob Logan.

Welcome back, Rob.


Rob: Rob.

Thank you for having me back.

I need to just start more projects so
I can have excuses to come back on or

Trey: off and that's all.

Well, I was going to say that's one
of the coolest things about having

you on like every time we look,
you've got something new to dive

into, it makes this part of the job so

Rob: easy.

Some people call it a mental illness,
but I appreciate you for celebrating.

Trey: I hope I hope
I'm not just indulging.

Well, luckily with your latest project,
uh, the geek news brief, it seems

like you've got some time in there
to hopefully take some breaks in

between, but for the audience who may
not be aware, how has that project.

Rob: Yeah.

So since the last time I've been
on a, I started up another podcast

called geek news brief, like you
said, I think it was in like July.

Uh, and it's, it's been going really well.

All I do is on, uh, every Monday,
Wednesday and Friday, I try to, I do

miss one every now and then I release
like a two to five minute podcast of

me just reading like three or four
news stories about stuff that's going

on in TV movies and video games.

And, uh, while the podcast side has
been really good and I release it

on YouTube and everything to the
place where it's really kind of

blown up unexpectedly is on Tik TOK.

Oh, well, yeah, within a, since July
and I've been posting, like I break

the stories down into individual Tik
TOK posts and, um, within only five

months of being on the platform,
I'm nearing 40,000 followers.

Trey: That's

Jude: amazing.

That's great.

Trey: I I've been following your cause.

You'll you'll post updates about how well
that's been going and one congratulations.

Cause that's really exciting.

Thank you.

But to something that I loved
about it, cause I follow and

I've seen the videos as well.

You have the animal crossing set dressing,
so it's not just you delivering the news.

You have built out this persona
within the animal crossing world.

And I just want to say, I thought
that was an incredibly awesome idea

to package that with the information
that you're delivering there too.

Rob: Thank you.

It's a very creative way to not put
my face in the videos and I only

have to deal with the voice part,
but yeah, my animal cry, I don't play

animal crossing like most people do.

I don't think because my island
is not set up for aesthetics.

It's set up for like utility.

So like I have one room in my
house set up as a news desk on the

opposite side of that same room.

I built like a holiday studio.

So now I have a Christmas.

Uh, Newsdesk over there.

And I do my filming in
there for my tech talks.

I have another room.

That's a 10 where I do
my editorial content.

I have another one, that's a movie studio
where I show like film and TV trailers.

And then I actually created a
podcast studio in the basement.

I haven't used that yet,
but I have plans for that.

Uh, and then my actual outside island
is a functional game show that I

can invite other people over to
and record stuff on there as well.

That is really

Trey: cool.

It's a lot of fun.

I think it's safe to say you're playing
the game, unlike anybody else that

I'm playing my own game at this point.

Well, you know, cause the thing
that I love so much as what I know

of animal crossing, it's all about
creating this, this vacation spot

and I just love the idea of your
tagline, my animal crossing island.

It's not aesthetics.

It's utility.

Rob: I made vacation into work

Trey: like I usually do.

Oh no, I am endorsing here.

Oh, that's fantastic.

If you're interested and you want
to hear more of Rob's work, you

should definitely following that.

You can follow him specifically at the rum
Logan on Twitter and Twitch and the geek

news brief at geek news brief on Tik TOK.

So, uh, yeah, you've also got a
very handy, uh, link tree link that

we'll put in the show notes as well.

That covers pretty much all
of your projects, so, oh yeah.


Rob: a long trail.

Trey: So be sure to check
that out in the notes.

Well, we're about to dive into some
Hawkeye, but before we get there,

uh, I do want to let listeners
know that recently, uh, Jude and I

got to do a couple of guest spots.

Uh, we were on MC rewind as they did
their Spiderman, no way home predictions.

And I personally got to join.

There was an idea, uh, Teekay's podcast
to talk about Spiderman, superlatives.

So, uh, make sure you check the
show notes for that as well.

For links to those shows

Jude: should be coming back TMC.

You rewind to check our scores
on how our predictions went.

I'll be honest.

Go check it out.

Listen to my predictions.

I don't think I did as well
as I did the last time.

I'm just, I'm

Trey: hoping I'm going to go
in the opposite direction.

I'm feeling pretty confident and
we are going to team up to dethrone

Tony from his reign of predictions.

So we're going to do it.

Jude: I got two specific.

Trey: W w we'll I'm sure we'll
get to do another one someday.

We'll we'll iron it out.

But of course, if you downloaded
this episode, you know, we're gonna

be talking about season one, episode
four of Hawkeye and titled partners.

Am I right?

And before we do that, we're going
to get some pre spoiler thoughts,

which is a chance for us to discuss
the episode without any spoilers.

Uh, you'll hear an audio cue and that'll
take us into the spoiler zone, but

before we get there, Rob, do you have any
preschooler thoughts for this episode?


Rob: I sure do.

So this is less for this episode, as much
as it's for the entire series so far.

So, um, I've been excited for
all the MCU series, but from the

initial announcements, this was
one that I wasn't as excited for.

And I think it might've just been because
we haven't really gotten an good chance

to dive into Hawkeye as a character.

And when they said there was going to
be a hot guy series, I was like, yeah.


Of course I'll watch that.

Cause I'm going to watch all of them, but
I wasn't necessarily excited because we,

we just haven't seen enough of him for
me to really get my like hooks into it.

Um, however, I've found myself
vibing with this show in a way that I

completely didn't expect to the point
where it might actually be my favorite

of the MCU Disney plus shows so far.

Oh, wow.

I think it has a lot to do with
the, the like street-level nature.

And the like level of
threat that's taking place.

It's no secret whatsoever
that I am a huge Batman fan.

Uh, and this show kind of reminds me a lot
of the episodes of Batman, the animated

series, where the threat is just like the

Jude: mob, you know what my preschooler
thought for this episode, but you're

right for the whole thing, uh, was
that a continues to stay grounded?

I just, I don't know.

It has, it's interesting.

It has still that kind of Netflix
on the ground Daredevil feel, but it

doesn't sacrifice what the MCU is,
you know, and two more episodes left,

but I, I think I might agree with
you on this might be my favorite.

This might unseat one.

Trey: You know, I, I really feel like
this show has become the underdog

of the MCU Disney plus shows.

No, it's the pizza doc.

It's the well played, sir.

Excuse me.

It is the pizza dog of the Disney plus
shows, uh, because I think there is,

you know, some rehabilitation of the
Clinton Barton Hawkeye within the MCU,

um, and to stick with the preschooler
thought that I shared on social media,

uh, you know, in the busiest year
that marvels had filled with, you

know, reality warping, uh, multi-verse
breaking ground shaking shenanigans.

The strength of this show is that
it is focusing on the quieter

human side of the superhero life.

So I think that matches what
you were saying, Jude about.

Yes, it is that street level, but
it doesn't sacrifice any of the MCU.

Goodness, we're getting that bridge
between street level while having

the bombastic nature of the MCU, but
coming back to seeing characters,

dealing with wounds, which isn't
new to the MCU, but the way that

it's handled in this show just feels
more grounded than it's ever been.

Um, and it, it feels
like a very good spits.

Speaking of this episode
specifically, uh, it feels like

a good followup episode from last

Jude: week.

Yeah, well, and I also think, I just,
just to add onto this, I think it helps

that the way Kate Bishop is becoming
what we expect, you know, the Hawkeye

mantle or young Avengers and all of
that, it's kind of the way, like I, if

I ever became kind of a superhero, like
this is the way it would be, you would

just be kind of like, I meet someone
and just kind of fumble my way in.

Right versus like every other hero,
like some magic thing happened or

they're on some quest or journey.

And this is like, nah, I just
wanted to do this all my life.

And I finally got to meet the person
and I'm going to tag along and they'd

make it happen minus the penthouse, but,

Trey: oh man.

Well, I think that's a good summation
of our priest boiler thought.

So why don't we go ahead and
get into the spoiler zone?

Uh, like we said, you're gonna hear an
audio cue and on the other side, it'll be

fair game for all spoilers and the MCU.

So we'll see you on the other side.

And we're back.

We're going to break this down
into the most important topics of

the episode, which is a way for us
to break down the episode without

having to go scene by scene.

So the first, most important topic
is going to be working the case.

Uh, we have a few scenes where
some of our protagonists are

having extensive conversations,
uh, with a variety of people.

So you have Clint, Kate, Jack, and
Eleanor at the beginning of the episode

where they discussing the fact that Kate
is intertwined with Clint's endeavors.

Uh, you have Kate interacting with
the LARPers as she's been tasked with

retrieving the arrows, and you have Clint
who goes and pays a visit to Kazi to

help throw Maya off the scent of Ronan.

So starting with you, Rob,
is there anywhere you'd like

to start with these topics?

Rob: Sure.

I mean, we should probably start
right at the beginning, uh, with

that conversation with Jack and
Eleanor and Kate and Clint and.

So I had the suspicion and I think you've
kind of started going in that direction

a little bit, but I've had the suspicion
from the beginning that Eleanor was going

to be kind of the main antagonist of this.

There might be someone above her,
but she is from what we can see

so far kind of the one who's going
to become the main antagonist.

And they're playing that
kind of close to the vest.

But I think this episode gave us most
of the clues that we've seen so far

to kind of justify that my initial
suspicion was honestly based on the

casting of Vera Farmiga being the mother.

And I was like, well, I've seen her,
I've seen her be a good guy, quote,

unquote, good guy and a lot of stuff.

But I feel like casting her.

Definitely puts her more in the
villainous role, but we do get the

evidence after their conversation.

Well, actually two things, we get the
part where she asks Clinton drop the case

under the guise of it, protecting Kate.

But I think she has an ulterior
motive for asking him to drop it.

And she puts that phone call.

And afterwards we don't know to
who exactly, but she does make

a phone call saying that there's
some trouble going on now.

Trey: I

Jude: agree with you on
the, just the casting alone.

You, you don't get someone like her,
you know, for, for this side role.

I'm wondering though, like they said,
they kind of play it close to the vest.

And I say, I'm wondering, I'm more hoping,
um, with an actress of her caliber,

two episodes left, are we hinting?

More of her later, like, is
that why it's close to the vest?

Is it going to tease out and we're
going to get to see like, like

that's what I'm really hoping for

Trey: possibly.

Yeah, that would definitely make sense.

Um, because we've talked about it before,
where you can't introduce a new threat

too late into the episode, cause you
don't have enough time set up, even though

this wouldn't be a new introduction, two
episodes left, how much are you going to

be able to reveal about them and have them
be that impact of a, of an antagonist?

Um, so I like that idea a lot, Jude
of them kind of being around in the

MCU long-term specifically, we had

Rob: that thought before and then
Loki pulled the rug out from under us.


Jude: a true, so, well wait,
wait, if in terms of Kang

and introducing somebody new.


Like in the

Rob: last episode,

Trey: like,

Jude: I mean, I was thinking
about that and I think it's

slightly different only in.

Well, slightly different.

And here's where this show might be.

The same is you knew he,
who knows not me, Nate.

Like you knew somebody was
controlling all of this, but we

just didn't get them until the end.

So it wasn't like completely
thrown out if that makes sense.


It was like, who was that person?

And I feel like they're doing
that a little bit, the same thing,

planting the seeds of the uncle
and that everybody assumes is Fisk.


You know, so, so like, I think that's
why if it's Fisk and tap the brakes

a little bit from last episode,
but if it's Fisk and that's where

the show is, I think it would work.

And the other reason why it would
work is because they've taken the

time to plant all the seeds all the
way from the beginning or second

episode in, or, you know, um, rather
than just no, you know, trail and.

Trey: You know, I do want to circle back
to something you said earlier, rod, when

you were talking about the way Eleanor
phrased dropped the case, you know, I,

that line stood out to me too, because
I even wrote in my notes, like, I'm

going to admit I'm straight up hounding
Eleanor this entire episode, because

I am assuming that she is the villain.

So I'm probably jumping the gun
here, but whenever she got into

that line of drop this case.


That to me was interesting because
if you were truly concerned for

Kate, it feels like the line would
be leave my daughter out of this.


Not, not drop this.

And the things that I can back that up
with is it's very telling that in the

beginning, when Jack has the sword at
Clint's throat and Eleanor walks in,

she's shocked to see that it's Clint.

She's like an Avengers in my house
and Jack is fanboying over Clint.

So this is a recognizable person.

But there is concern on Eleanor's,
uh, mind, uh, especially the way

she also throws out that line.

My daughter's helping with and Avengers
level threat, almost like she's trying to

affirm that she's not being investigated.

That it's something else grander.

Rob: She might even be asking that
like, am I an Avengers level threat?

Trey: Oh, good

Jude: point.




It's, it's definitely a fishing
for information there, but

I, I like that idea of that.

You just said that Rob, of, of both
wanting to know, but also kind of

stroking the ego a little bit right

Trey: there.

Plus if it does turn out that she
is, the antagonist will be two for

two, I think of people using the
term of vendors level, threat, and

turning out to be the villains.

Rob: We'll just be in trouble
off the uncle is my Festo.

Jude: They have to do that for us.


At some point, see, I feel like
we, as a fan base probably ruined

it and they're like scratching out
ideas of like how we can't do my

sister now, or we have to rethink
exactly how we're going to do this.

Trey: They're going

Rob: to wait until we forget
about it and then drop them in.

Trey: So while we're here at this
beginning with the Clint, Kate, Jack,

and Eleanor conversation, something that
I wanted to highlight, uh, because I am

pretty, I'm praising this episode highly.

But one thing that I think stood out
to me of not working is I felt like

there was a little bit of a regression
having Clint and Kate go back to that

bickering back and forth where he's
like, oh, I wouldn't call his friends.

We're not partners.

It felt like last episode, the big
moment is that we see them realizing

like, Hey, we can work together.

So I'm not saying that I needed
them to drop the bickering.

I think that's something that's
special about their dynamic.

I just wish it wouldn't have felt
like Clint went back on that feeling

after the end of the last episode, I

Rob: felt like that was maybe a little
bit of a show for Eleanor and Jack.

I think maybe if they were
not in other company, Clinton,

wouldn't be acting like that.

I think it's his way of being like, she's
not as involved in this as you think.

Don't worry, I'm dealing with this.

She's just kind of tagging along.

She's not in danger.

Jude: Yeah, I think so too.

Um, you know, and just an element
of like, You are an Avenger.

This is some, as far as
they know, my daughter is a

random 22 year old, you know?

And, and I think Clint is especially
cause like Clint would have

recognized at this point right
away, the sword was wrote in sword.


You know, and that, that would have
triggered something for him, um, of like,

yeah, we need to have that distance.

Rob: Yeah.

I think it's also for the sake of this
episode's story and keeping things

circular and wrapped up because by the
nut, without jumping too far ahead,

the way this episode wraps up where
they are probably at their more, most

cohesive before, again, breaking up, they
have to start at a place where they're

bickering a little bit to make their
part, their true partnering up that more

Trey: meaningful.

And that makes sense.


Real quick.

The, one of the last things we
have in this beginning scene before

moving on, does anybody have any
guesses as to who Eleanor called?

Rob: I, I want to say Fisk.

I do.

Uh, but the other theory I know is
our big cameo could be, could be

potentially the one she was talking.



Trey: seems to be between, uh Yulaina who
is our cameo or potentially Val, who we

know as the person who sent a Lena on that

Jude: mission.


Wait, I didn't even realize that.

I mean, she works at a security company.

She could've called you Yulaina yeah.


Like I just put that,
cause my thought was Fisk.

I thought about,

Trey: yeah.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe is
our conversation with friend Daniel

who turned me onto that idea.

Jude: Um, but I also thought I still
just have that feeling that, that

it could be, uh, Kate Bishop's dad,
like she's still alive somewhere.

That's the uncle.

Whether Eleanor's in on it or not.

I'm not sure, but like, I don't know.

I just, I wanted to back off of Fisk.


Rob: feel like I would be blindsided
if it was her biological dad

that would throw me quite a bit.

Cause they haven't, they haven't really
focused on Kate's lack of a father.

I know that haka is kind of her stand in
father figure throughout this series, but

they haven't made a big deal about that.

Jude: Yeah, no, they have it, it
feels more like brother, sister.

Well, it's kind of weird.

I feel like she wants it kind of
like partner brothers, sisters.

And he's like you're 22 go away.



I do want to say out of this scene,
if jacks or red herring, they've

done a really good job of throwing
me off the set and I'm watching it.

And I'm just like, dude,
he's not a villain.

He's just truly that much of a doofus.

Rob: I think that's the case.


I think he's, he's kind of a

Trey: doofus.

I'll read straight from my notes.

The most amazing acting performed
on screen is Tony Dalton looking

like he's not charismatic.

I don't know how he pulled that off.

Like you said it doofus,

Jude: Hey, it just, it
makes the heart grow old.

You know, which, which makes the scene.

Like where he read the
book about step parenting.

Just that much more.

I love much that much more because
it's like, oh, you're genuinely trying.

Rob: He's a doofus that knows
how to sword fight though.

Jude: Yes.

That's, that's the thing.

Trey: That's a dangerous
con uh, combination.

Yeah, sure.

It is.

Ooh man.

Well, you know, I'm realizing now, uh, one
thing I forgot to set up in the important

topic breakdown is as relieving the scene.

Uh, we do see that we get a conversation
with Clinton, Laura, uh, where he asked

to run some Intel on, uh, Sloan limited.

So how do you feel about the
relationship between Clint and his wife?


Rob: I absolutely love.

Uh, there are so many shows and movies
where the hero thinks he has to keep

his wife and his family in the dark.

And it is so refreshing to see a
husband wife team that are on the

same page and like working together.

And it's not just she's home alone
and all anxious and she's involved.

And I think that's fantastic.

Jude: Oh yeah.


I, 100% agree with you on that.

There's so much.

Just my own life there's so I can't
outside of like Christmas gifts.


I'm trying to think of things that
like, I don't tell Amity, you know,

and even like some people I work with,
you know, there was just like some of

my closest friends at work and stuff.

It was, it was almost like this
understood and even me to them.

And then to me understood of like, yeah,
I'm telling you this in confidence, but

I know you're going to tell your wife.

Because that's just how it works
and I get it and I'm okay with it.

And so to actually see that on
screen is in the show is fantastic.


Trey: The depiction of them truly as
partners is like you said, Rob refreshing.

And I love the way, because I know
this is a limited show, six episodes.

You can only do so much, but with the
limited time that they have with Laura

onscreen, they are creating a fully
realized character because the way that

she's able to have that conversation
without actually having the conversation

hints to so much of her background
without the time that I would like to

see explored in her history as well.



Jude: Uh, most of the rumors right
now say that she's Mockingbird,

are we going with that?

Oh really?


That, that the, the, what.

The reason why it's so important
to, to Barton and hers, because

it's gonna like reveal her and
her location as, as Mockingbird.


Trey: Yeah.

So, so just to set the scene, uh, one
of the other McGuffin is in this show

is that watch that you described and
Clint himself says that it belonged to

somebody he used to work with and their
identity is attached to that watch.

So if the washers discovered goodbye
friend, so it's clearly something

super important to them and to give
a little, uh, more credit to what

you're saying, Jude, whether it's
Mockingbird or not, I don't know,

but something I found interesting.

Laura used clever conversation to hide
the fact that she was talking about

the tracksuit mafia and Jack running
as their CEO, whenever she's talking

about the identity of the watch, she
completely switches to a different

language, which makes me signal like,
oh, this is even more of a deeper secret.

So that's why it feels a little bit
more personal to her and could be

assigned that yes, the identity is hers,

Jude: not even brought up in that
in the, um, earlier episode where

Martin just kind of say, yeah,
I'm going to do catch and release.

And she knew exactly what that was and
oh, NATS favorite move kind of thing.

So yeah, there there's a
lot of evidence for that.

Rob: I wouldn't be surprised
if she was former shield.

I would be surprised if it
was specifically Mockingbird.

And I know that agents of shield is.

Technically cannon, there's a whole debate
about that, that I'd rather not get into,

but it would be the first time I believe
that they would be recasting or reckoning,

something that is even something
considered slightly possibly cannon.


Trey: a good cat.


Jude: I loved that portrayal of
Mockingbird and agents are field

well, and I think the whole reason
it was frustrating because the whole

reason Adriana Pell on it, Palenik
yes, Adrian colicky, um, left.

And I can't remember the other guy,
uh, but the two of them left to,

so we're supposed to do a spinoff
and then it ended up not making.

And so we lost two fantastic character.

Yeah, that was frustrating.

No other, she went on to Orville, so
I'm sure you were pretty happy about

Trey: that.

I was, yeah,

Rob: I'm totally

Trey: fine with it now.

Jude: So no, I'm with you on, on
the whole, a Mockingbird idea, but

that's, that's who people think,

Trey: well, moving along
within this topic, uh, Rob,

I've got a question for you.

Have you ever done any?

Rob: I have not.

I have a lot of D and D in my background,
but I've never specifically larked.

Trey: W how do you feel about Kate's
interaction with the LARPers within this

Rob: episode?

I thought it was amusing.

Uh, the only, the only thing that's
bumming me out a little bit with the

wipers is they're kind of portraying
them in the way that a lot of shows

portray, like nerds and geeks and
LARPers and roleplayers, and they're

looking down on them a little.

I think the only way that they're not
completely looking down on them and

they're bringing them back up is that
these are all first responders and

firefighters and a cop and all that stuff.

And that, that prevents them
from being like, oh, too nerdy.

They actually do have a function.

I think they're going to prove their
worth moving forward to kind of

get rid of some of that stereotype.

But yeah, no, I think aside from that
portrayal, they're a very fun inclusion.

I thought it was a little goofy the first
time we saw them, but here they're already

starting to serve a better purpose,

Jude: you know?

And that's so interesting that I'm
trying to think, like at one time

the nerdy stereotype would have been.

The comic book reader, the comic.




Rob: the comic books, materials looking
down on the LARPers a little bit.

It's a little,

Jude: it is strange.

Cause cause it, cause there's such
overlap with the role-playing community.

Cause that's what it's all about is
that escapism and the role-playing

um, well, it's it's live action.

Dungeons and dragons.


Um, and I th she said all three
of us enjoy Dungeons and dragons.

Um, and if I had the opportunity
to go LARPing, I probably would.

Um, so yeah, like I I'm with you on that.

I just liked that, that, that.

They brought them back, like he
said, so to give them something

more than just that goofy.


Trey: I think the saving grace
of how they're handling this is

at the very least, the LARPers
themselves are not ashamed.

So I do appreciate that.

Like they're full throated into this,
so that that's, I think what's keeping

it full on from being in the bullying
territory, because the humor is more

how out of place Clint or Kate feel.

So there's still some ground to
be, to be covered here, but at

least they're not like outwardly
making fun of them, I think.

Um, and I, I will say it is very.

What's the word I'm looking for.

I like how they've brought in
the expertise of the LARPers

and all their costume design and
cause playing as a potential for

making the costume of the heroes.

Like, can you imagine what a dream
job that would be for the cosplayer?

It's a make the, your awareness.

Oh yeah.

They lose their

Rob: mind.

Jude: Yeah.


Trey: So they're doing some
interesting things there.

I hope, I hope they can, can
really land this plane with

that storyline within the show.

Jude: So I don't know.

Rob, do you watch any of the, or
listen to any podcasts of Dungeons and

dragons live, play, or actual play?

Rob: I have, I've tried to watch.

Streams and listen to podcasts
and I can't get into it that way.

If I'm not playing the game, I don't,
I don't really get involved with it.

Jude: Okay.

So there's, there's, I've
listened to a couple of podcasts.

Um, and the ones that I really got into
it was because I seen them elsewhere and

it was, um, college humor's streaming.

They have a show, uh, dimension
20 and that on YouTube.

And that is fantastic.

Like it's just them who actually play
like in their professional voice,

actors and comedian, you know, an
improv actors, but they're literally

just playing a Homebrew game.

Um, you know, Cameras and stuff.

And that was what really kind
of helped me learn Dungeons

and dragons and get into it.

But the dungeon master,
Brendan Lee Mulligan.

I remember him saying on a
podcast, I was listening to that

as a kid, he hated Halloween.

It didn't make sense to
him because he'd learned.

And he was like, if I'm going
to get dressed up, why no I'm

going to do the full night.

I'm going to, role-play like, I don't
understand putting on the costume

and not actually acting it out.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Rob: Yeah.

I, I, I think that's funny with cosplay
too, because like I have a, I have a

Batman costume that I've worn to some
cons and stuff, and I'm like, if I'm

gonna wear it there, then I'm gonna,
I'm gonna play the part or else.

Why am I doing.

I'm just now

Trey: imagine you like perched
on the top of a balcony scholar,

looking at all the convention go,
I'm just making sure everyone's safe.

That's it.

I was totally fishing for your
Batman voice and I'm so glad we got,

oh, well, you know, uh, moving along
well, Kate is retrieving the arrows

and making deals with the LARPers.

Uh, Clint is interrogating Kasi and I
say, interrogating more threatening Kasi.


What did you think of this scene
where he's trying to throw my off

the scent of Ronan through Kasi?

Jude: I, what I liked the most about it
is is you get the feeling that Clint knew.

Well, because my thought of
Causey was the last one is caused.

He's there because of Maya, you know?

And, and you get the sense
that Clinton knows that.

And that's why Clint went to him.

And that's why.

Um, the, the scene went
down the way it did.

Trey: You know, I think the thing that
stood out to me within this scene is

Clint's not mincing any words here.

He is straight up dancing around the
fact that if Maya does not stop doing

this, she's going to end up killed
and we can have a conversation about

whether or not that's a false threat
to hopefully in and pose this warning.

But I, it makes me feel how I felt at
the beginning of last episode where

they're doing great work showing Maya's
side of this, and we're starting to

have reasons to root for antagonists.

And with this scene, we're having
reasons to be bristled at Clint or

at least I personally felt that way.

Uh, did that stand out in any
particular way for Europe?

Rob: Yeah.


I thought he took a really
smart approach to this.

Clearly he has training and tactics
like this and everything, and

even just the conversation by.

Ha framing everything in the, like I'm
doing this to make sure that nobody

dies, that you're going to be okay.

That Maya's going to be okay.

I'm not looking for violence here.

I'm just trying to like clean up
my mess or Ronan's mess and, and

just get out of here, but, and
just please stay out of the way.

And this will all go away.

Like you're pursuing something
that shouldn't be pursued.


Trey: think

Jude: that?

Cause I kind of started to get this
sense the way Clint was talking about it.

Um, during the Intech interrogation,
I almost feel like he would

clear it was dropping hints
that he was running to Kazi.

Trey: Do you have any examples?

Jude: No,

just the line of questioning, just
the ma if Maya continues going

after Ronan, she will get hurt.

She will die.

Like, I dunno, it, it, cause
it felt very threatening.

It wasn't like, like it wasn't
look, I, cause he didn't ever go

back to black widow killed Ronan.

I was there.

He didn't try that line.

It was just a warning of
people are going to get hurt.

Maya's going to get killed, you
know, and because it was all more

threatening language, then look.

I'm telling you, I already told
you, you Rodin's dead told you this

the other day, this is the truth.

Like he didn't try to reinforce that,
I guess so, so I think that's why

the, the, the, I don't have a specific
example of like, oh, this dialogue,

but it was more just the approach
of the scene and the interrogation

itself, um, kind of made me feel

Trey: that way.

The implication, I mean, it's,
it's the, the, the stereotypical,

like mob talk of like, oh, it'd
be a real shame if this happened.

Like I'm telling you without telling
you, so listen kind of thing.

Rob: It could be implying that this is
because I am Ronin and that's why this is

going to happen, but it could also be, I'm
just telling you this now, because you're

going down a path that leads to death.

So it's hard to, because he has very bad.

Uh, like he's hinting to certain things
while being vague, but that's the kind of

like shield talk that he's been training.

Trey: Well, speaking of
implications, there's one

thing that I want to point out.

And again, everything is under
this assumption that the big

guy or the boss is Wilson Fisk.

And we've had multiple instances within
this episode where we refer to whoever

that person is without saying their name.

And of course, Metta, Metta wise,
this is revealing a surprise for

the audience, but in universe, what
I liked so much about this is it

hearkens back to that first season of
Daredevil, where nobody wanted to say

his name, because it w they were afraid.

And they had that whole arc where they
tried to reclaim the power of saying

his name so that he just becomes a man.

What a great way to soft reboot that here
into the MCU while being a meta surprise.


You know, I say working under the
assumption, I'm basically just

going on that it is Wilson, this,

Rob: well, we know they're going
to bring them in at some point,

whether it'd be in this series or
whether it'd be in something else.


Trey: this

Jude: is going to show up
just like the Pfister did.


Oh man.

Trey: Well, I think that's going to
ramp up the rucking, the case topic.

Uh, so we're gonna go ahead and move into
the next one, which is holiday bonding.

So we have two specific scenes where
we've seen our characters really

find their holiday spirit and have
some sentimental moments together.

So one of those scenes is where Kate,
Jack, and Eleanor are having a discussion.

And Kate sees for the first time, how
happy Jack is actually making Eleanor.

Uh, meanwhile, we also
have another scene where.

Kate decides to bring some
holiday cheer to Clint when he

is alone in her aunt's apartment.

Uh, so starting with you this
time, Jude, is there anywhere

you'd like to start specifically?


Jude: I've been to holiday parties
and I must say that one, one looks

like a fun one with Clinton, Kate.


It's just, they, they looked like they
just had like a really good holiday party

and I was just, I don't know, cause I've
been to holiday parties where it's just

like, it just felt very awkward and stiff.

Rob: Two person parties are generally
more fun than like massive parties anyway,

Jude: so yeah.

That's true.

That's true.

We're spoken like

Trey: a group that does podcasts.

Jude: Yes.

Uh, but no, like it is, it is,
it was, I really enjoyed it.

I liked that they spent that much
time of this episode with the

two of them with the bonding.

You know, I, I think that like, just,
I'm going to look ahead slightly.

I think part of the end Clint's
making the choices that he does

because of what she did for him here.

Um, you know, even if it is,
Eleanor's like, Hey, drop this,

you know, she did make a plea.

Like you have a daughter, I
want, you know, do you have kids?

I want my daughter to be safe.

So I think all of that wrapped
in was like contributed to that

in the, the ending choices.


Trey: a brutal episode for Clinton
emotionally, because we didn't

really talk about it in that first
important topic, but yeah, Eleanor

was pretty ruthless with the, yeah.

Natasha was pretty good too.


And then you have this scene again
where after they've had some jovial

times together, Kate asks him, you know,
what was the best shot you ever took?

And Clint, after having a good time
starts to open up and said it was

the shot I didn't take and then
tries to close up again because

it's to an all too real place.

Um, so yeah, I, I think you're
definitely onto something here, Jude,

with how so much of this is informed.

So much of this informs
the choices at the end.

I'm absolutely.

Jude: So did either one of you feel
like, cause I feel like I could

also read the scene the other way.

It almost felt in one way,
potentially manipulative on Kate's

part, like, like, like it, and I
feel like it's an efficiency thing.

Um, ultimately, cause you have that, that
other scene where they're talking costumes

and all of a sudden she makes this shift
and describes their own in costume and

you can tell what she's getting at,
but it just felt out of left field.

And then same way getting to getting
him to admit that he's thrown in here.

It's almost like, yeah,
we're going to bond.

We're going to bond now that I got
you comfortable and trust, I'm going

to get this out of you, you know?

Um, and I don't know if that's, again,
just an efficiency of, I have six episodes

or if that really is kind of like as
a character, the way Kate functions,

Rob: I didn't read any
manipulation in it at all.

I thought when, I mean, there's that
comment that Jack makes when they're

still at the table earlier about, it would
totally suck to be alone on the holidays.

And Kate goes back in her brain.

I imagine to that phone call that
Clinton had with his son and just

realizes that all Clinton wants to
do is just get this taken care of.

And go be with his family.

And she's the reason
that he can't do that.

So in her guilt and still wanting to
bond with this person just goes out of

her way to be like, okay, you can't go
to home to your family and celebrate,

I'm going to do everything I can to put
you in some sort of a Christmas mood

because you're stuck in the situation.

And it's my fault.

Trey: Yeah.

I mean, she even has that line where she's
like, I'm going to get you home in time

for the big day it's movie marathon night.


I brought some movies.

So I do think you're spot on with, this
is a, uh, guilt motivated action, but it

is coming from a place of genuine care.

That's 22 year old, right?

Like persistently beating down
that door, even if it may not

be, you know, appropriate.

So yeah, I think they
were having a good time.

They're bonding.

Like this is straight up what I wanted to
see a continuation of from last episode

to this episode versus what I got at the
beginning, because Clint is still treating

her like, all right, you're young.

You don't know what you're talking
about, but they're working together

and they're having a good time.

So I enjoyed that aspect of it.

And it, it builds up to that questioning
from Kate where it is that young side

of like knowing when or not knowing
when it's appropriate to knock on

that door of something like that.

Um, so I can see what
you're getting at Jude.

Uh, but I, I think I would chalk
it up to your, just being young.

Jude: Yeah.

So, Rob, yes.

I got to know where do you land on?

This is 18 and 22.

The same thing are they drastically

Trey: different

Rob: is 18 and 22.

The same thing.


Jude: remember from the first,
the first episode, what are you?

18 to 22.

And he's like the same thing.

And there's been some kind
of debate of like, is this

actually drastically different?

As some would say it is.

And or are you in the Clinton?


No, it's the same camp.

Rob: I think it depends on the age of
the person you're asking a lot because

someone, someone younger would probably
say, oh, they're, they're so different.

But then the older you get those
ages start to blend in together.

And I think Clint's experience
with 18 to 20 terror.

Two year olds in the role
he's in now is pretty slim.

Like he's dealing with his kids and
he's not really thinking about that too.

So for him sure.

To say, oh yeah, 1822 is the same
thing that makes sense for me.

But I wouldn't say that.

And, and you and I, having worked
with kids a lot over the years, um,

can D see a clear separation between
those that's a big growth period.


Jude: I'd actually, I'd agree with you on
that part to say that there is definitely

a big growth, uh, separation in that.

Um, although I'm going to just set
this out, there's there some 22 year

olds that I've been across that don't
say yeah, there, this the same thing.


Rob: It's a very individual
by individual thing.

Jude: Right?

Well, we, you know what
it's, it's, it's what we do.


We got to get, as we get a consensus by.

Haskin multiple people.

Trey: That's going to be
our new go-to question.

Every podcast episode,

Jude: 1822 years.

That's the same.

Rob: Is this the, uh, are you an
iron man or captain America person?

Like, is this a new one

Jude: man or captain America?

New year

Trey: new us.


Jude: Oh,

Trey: well, you know, I want
to circle on something here.

Uh, that takes place within this
episode, after they start opening

up, uh, Clint has a moment where he
says, when you do what I do for a

living, it's a game of managing loss.

So I had this idea.

That actually listening to,
there was an idea helped further

me along to get to this point.

Uh, Tara and her guest were talking
about how much of what Kate is motivated

by is so that she never loses anybody.


That was the big motivating factor
for, uh, wanting to take up the bone

arrow because she lost her father.

And that's clearly very important to her.

Now, last week, Jude, you and
I, and Ellie were talking about

what is it that Kate has to lose?

And I jokingly said pizza dog, and I've
taken some flack for that, but I've

been thinking about it more and more,
and I'm starting to piece together

what I think Kate might actually lose.

And again, under operating under
that, that, that analysis that

TK had about, you know, this is
a managing loss thing for Kate.

I really think the humbling aspect
that's going to come from her is the

revelation of Eleanor being an antagonist.

Her losing her mother, not
mortally, but just morally.

And I think that's where she's going
to really have that coming of age

moment of like, you can do all these
things perfectly and it's still not

going to end the way you think it does.

Um, and I thought that was
illuminating if I am right.

It's illuminating that they have planted
this conversation with Clint two K and it

really seems like it's seeping in for her.


Rob: Completely agree with that.

That is, that would have
been my go-to thought too.

I was like, how's it going to
say the thing I'm thinking?

He said the thing

Jude: well, yeah.

No, and it makes sense.

I mean, we've all, well, I say we've
all generically speaking, typically

speaking, we, you know, there's that
mentor figure, adult figure, whether

it's a parent or somebody, you know,
that, that you idolize and you look

up to, and then something happens.

You have that moment, you
realize they're human, you know?

Um, and.

And I think you're right.

I think that's what Kate is
going to probably experience,

um, with, with her mom.

I think you're, that's,
that's not a grain of sand.

That's a full castle.

Oh wow.

Trey: I like that lingo.

That's good.

We've been dealing with grain so long.

I've, I'm shocked by this castle.

Rob: It's been a while since we get
started building the grains together and

Trey: it's only taken four series,
but you know, we've talked a lot about

the heavier aspects of this party.

Uh, Rob.

Boomerang arrow, or being able to
flick a quarter to turn off a TV, where

Rob: you going, I'm going,
I'm going with the coin.


I agree with, with Glen, a
boomerang arrow is stupid.

I know.

I thought the implication in saying
boomerang arrow was that it could come

back to you and you could use it again.

Not I'm going to put a boomerang
on something that's going to

blow up when it comes at me.

But I don't know that's I, but
like overall kind of looking at the

lighter side of this, like this whole
sequence of the, the Christmas party

and the Ronin reveal and everything.

This was my favorite part of the episode.

Um, I thought the comedy was really
strong here without going over the top.

Uh, I love that they were
finally really bonding like it.

I felt, I felt like the walls came down
a little bit, especially for Clint.

And he really took this
in as like a genuine.

Effort on Kate's part to like,
she's just not, she's not looking

at me as Hawkeye right now.

She's looking at me as Clint.

And I think, I think that allowed him
to open up and talk about Natasha and

admit the fact that he was a Ronan
and like all of that was absolutely

tremendous when he talks about the,
uh, the shot that he didn't take.

Um, Jeremy Renner's body language
in that scene was phenomenal.

He's squirming in his
seat the entire time.

And, and I got the impression
that he, that Clint is just

genuinely lost without Natasha.

And he, he does, he even kind
of like looks around the room.

Like I don't, I don't know
what to do without her.

Like, I'm still trying to figure it out.

Uh that's that performance
is absolutely fantastic.

I was really glad that Kate figured out
that Clinton was running on her own.


He admitted it for sure, but
he didn't just like reveal it

and drop a bombshell on her.

But even more than that, I liked
the fact that she continued to

look at him as a hero, regardless.

Like, it didn't feel like a
blind admiration of him anymore.

She's now starting to
see him as a complete

Jude: person.


I think that's, that was
a perfect way to put it.

Um, cause you just, you have that
and I really liked what you said

about this, this, this realization
in their relationship that.

She's not there.

Well, maybe she was at the
beginning because, oh your Hawkeye.

But like, oh

Rob: yeah, totally at the beginning.

Jude: Yeah.

But like, well, like from the
beginning, but you see the

development of, oh, your HAC.

I had development to like, no, I'm,
I'm really in this because I want this.

And I'm learning something about you.

And you're becoming important to me
beyond just an avenue to being a superhero

and someone that I've admired, you
know, which, I mean, they planted those

seeds all the way up to this point.

Like with the phone call and her doing
the translation for that, or, uh,

her getting the hearing aid fixed or.

You know, him kind of prepping her,
like, you know, this life has a lot of

sacrifices kind of like he's buying in.

Uh, so yeah, like in the
culminating, in the scene was just,

Trey: yeah, I think framing it as she's
finally seeing Clint, like not the,

the fanning out about to being Hawkeye,
she's seeing him is great because so

much of what episode one was, like
we said, the, the hero admiration as

wasn't the person, it was the status.

And so now.

I like your read a lot, Rob, and I
want to give some kudos to Kate as well

because she's taking it like a champ.

Two things happen with his revelation.

She now realizes he's not
staying to help some stranger.

He has a vested interest in
putting this road and stuff to bed.

So the pure, you know, saving her hide.

Isn't exactly why he's there.

And on top of that, she even tries to
say, but like you protect people and

he adamantly says, no, I hurt people.

I just had good people,
Amy at the right people.

So she's having so much about this hero
life disillusioned right in front of her.

And she says, I'll see you tomorrow, boss.

Like she has taken these
lessons and continuing onward.

Uh, I don't think it completely saves
Clint from the past of what he's done.

There's still some reckoning to do, but
it seems like they are still working

through this together, which is nice.

Rob: There's a line the next morning
that I think is very important.

Uh, both in its performance and delivery
and people might've looked at it as

a bit of a throw away line, uh, the
next morning, there's the part where

Clint's like, okay, go get my arrows.

And Kate's like, well, I like to think
of them as our arrows and up to this

point, anytime that Kate suggested we're
a team where partners, we're friends.

And I think it's kind of why
the bickering was important.

At the beginning of this episode, he
always took it down and it's the first

time he says, okay, go get our arrows.

And you see the smile on her,
face the smile on his face.

And that's a massive step
in their relationship.

Trey: Yeah.

I'm glad you called that out.

That's that's a good one.


Jude: Well, and it's, I love it.

There's the acceptance of
him, uh, R from him of Kate.

There's that acceptance there?

I do.

How much.

And I, and I wonder, like, I feel like
this has happened with the character,

and I'm just wondering how they're
going to, to, to fully show this.

Like, we're starting to see it, but
especially at the way, this episode

ends, like there, you're going to
see it more that Kate's going to have

this utilization just as much as y'all
were saying, like, oh, he's wrote in.

So he's truly invested in this,
not just helping a stranger, but

I think part of her maturity is
going to have that realization

of some, like, this is my fault.

I put it on the road in suit.

I brought this, I brought this back out.

Um, and so I have some kind of
responsibility is just as much

as you do of, uh, of getting this
taken care of, I think you're

Rob: right.


I think that's something,
something to look out for and it

Trey: attracts too, because think
of think back to the last step.

That was a good moment for her.

She's like when I put that suit
on, it was like, I knew what I was

supposed to do for the first time.

So it would be a nice growth
point if we have a moment where

she realizes no, I have some
ownership in this mistake as well.

Jude: Well, and also again, off that
line, just this hopefully realization

they'll show of like, I put the suit
on and this, like you said, this is

what I'm supposed to be doing, but
what that suit actually represents

for her idol and the general public
is not what she's been hoping to do.

You know, she wants to help
people not be an assassin.

I don't know.

Maybe she wants to be an assassin HEDA

Rob: now that she's learned to baby,
she's had her first take, oh no.

Trey: Well, I do want to point this
out because Rob you, you highlighted

the, our arrows lined wonderfully.

And as deep as that line is for
the characters, it's also revealed.

Haka has spent a lot of time recovering
his arrows after every MCU battle, if it's

true that he has so many of them left.

So from now on, when I think of civil war
Avengers, he's out there just collecting

arrows for a good bit on his own

Rob: and just the, the arrow
shafts, I would assume.

Cause yeah, well the arrow heads
have done whatever they do.

I can't see the PIM arrow
being able to be reused though.

That, that one feels like a one-timer.

Jude: It does.

It does well, you know,
Dungeons and dragons.

Um, my main weapon is a bow for
my character and, and, and part of

the game is you go collect them.

You're rolling, but
you're picking up arrows.

So, so even in the
fantasy world, it happens,

Rob: this is true.

Trey: So the only thing we have to
touch on and we can keep it brief

because it was a brief scene itself
is the, again, that moment where

Kate is starting to see, okay.

Maybe there is something between
Jack and Eleanor and as cheesy

as it is, it was so adorable.

Sweet to see that they
look genuinely happy.

What poor timing on, on that part
that Kate gets, it reaffirmed

like, Hey, good instincts.

I looked into it.

He actually does suck.


So that, uh, that might've thrown
some monkey wrenches into the Jack

is a complete full red herring.

He's got some culpability if
maybe not the entire culpability.

See, I think he's a

Rob: doofus.

I think Eleanor's using his name.


I think I agree.

I think he's a doofus and I think
he, Eleanor is kind of using him.

Oh, okay.

Even if she is happy with.

Jude: Yeah, but, but, but think about
it like Armand, a third had, I mean,

he was looking, I, we watched this
episode with, uh, with my wife and she

was like, that's just mom, he's really
talking that bad about Kate's mom to her.

And so he clearly doesn't like Eleanor
and doesn't want Jack to marry Eleanor.

I think he knows that she's just
using Jack and that might be

why Eleanor killed, uh, Vermont.

Rob: I'd totally forgotten about that.

Like, even though it's only a few episodes
away, like that stuff feels like so far

in the past compared to where we are now.

Jude: And, but, but that, that
argument they had is the whole

reason why Kate followed Armand down.

You're right.

So, yeah.

And she talks about knowing powerful
people, maybe Fisk, and he's

like, I know powerful people too.

And so, yeah, so like he.

Well, like, like, I think that's
another one of those sayings where the

reason why she's trying to be with him
is the whole money laundering thing.

So I don't know.

He's a doofus still.

I'm going to go

Trey: with that.

Oh man.

I guess time will tell.

Well, unless there's anything
more, I think we can go ahead and

move into the next most important
topic, which is watch and learn.

So this is going to be the topic where we
discuss the bulk of the, the final scene,

where Kate and Clint are going to retrieve
the watch from the mysterious apartment

as they're going about their plans.

They have discovered that Maya is
there and starts attacking Kate.


A mysterious figure is attacking Clint.

Who turns out to be Yulaina also,
I'm starting with me this time.

I want to just put this out.

Cause I, I, for anybody else
who's been covering this show.

It has been tripping me up so
far, all season that both our

main characters have the sound.

So I have to stop and distinguish
what I'm talking about date.

And when I'm talking about Clint
and I get tripped up every time

Rob: understandable.


Trey: Kate and Hawkeye.

Won't see.

That was something else
I forgot to bring up.

When you were talking about
the scene, Clint for Clint.

Another fun thing that I've been noticing
on a meta level is watching people go

from calling him Hawkeye to now calling
him Clint, which I think links towards

that rehabilitation of the character.


Anyway, uh, starting with
this important topic.

I don't think there is a better microcosm
of Clinton Kate's relationship, then

that scene where Clint is looking
with the binoculars and detailing.

All right, it's going to take me about two
and a half minutes to get up the building.

I'm going to do this.

Well, you know, you watch my exits
and then he turns in Kate is gone.

Uh, it is beautifully done between them.

And I like how it goes from the suave
nature of Clint, trying to keep it

low key to Kate, literally stopping
traffic and striking up conversations

with people in the building as she
begins her sent up to the apartment.

Rob: Yeah.


I think it's a great way to illustrate
the differences between them, um,

because it's no less effective as we saw.


It's just a thing that
Clint would not consider.

That is not what his training
would suggest that he does.

He was so focused on his med.

That he didn't consider another one.

I think this might foreshadow
a little bit that Kate's going

to start to rub off on him

Trey: too.

Jude: Well, yeah.

Cause he's, he's like training her.

Yeah, no, no, you, I thought
you'd be up here now.

We're going to be here.

Cause you gotta think about
exits and he's in the middle of

talking and training and she just.

I am 22.

I've had enough and walk off,

let's do this.

She is the Leroy Jenkins.

Trey: What

Rob: a pole.

Oh man.

And the same way, but

Trey: yeah, so

Rob: far, so far.

Trey: Yeah, Kate Kate's ability to
constantly talk is an amazing skill.

And I think it's a Testament, both
to the character and Haley, Steinfels

an actor, how she can go from being
outrageously charming to off-putting

so quickly, because the way that
she was genuinely helping out that

tenant as he was holding his groceries
and it was so nice and sweet, and

then she gets into the elevator.

She's like, yeah, I was
talking to an Avenger.

I hear him in my ear.

And then he just kind of gets very
nervous and grabs his grocery bag.

So good.

Jude: So did any, did either
one of you pick up on, cause I

didn't that it was, uh, the Maya's

Trey: apartment.

It took me

Rob: a while.

I didn't pick up on it until they said it.


Trey: yes, in

Jude: here, like, like it makes
sense that it would be, you

know, the, the flashing alarms

Trey: and go out on this limb and
just like, I know this is stupid,

but why I didn't pick up on that.

Kate shoots those sirens with
the goop and you see the goo

bubble up for whatever reason.

I just took that as like the
sound was making the bubble.

And so that's, I know that's
a dumb way to look at it, but

that's what honestly threw me off.

Well, I,

Jude: I knew he was fantastic.


So it, and my cousin, Paul, I
think mentioned this just, and

we've, we've mentioned it, I think
before this playing with not being

deaf, as, you know, something.

You know, in CA in Clint's view,
like disabling, uh, but enabling

in Maya's view, you know, and, and,
and finally starting to look in that

space in terms of like, diversity.


But I think speaking for me, part of
why I didn't pick up on that being

the alarm is just my worldview.

Like it, like it, like, like, it
just didn't click of like, oh,

it tell me it's an alarm, but
Maya, the main character is deaf.

Like, it wouldn't make a sound like
it would have to be strobing lights.

Like I, like, I think, I think just
because of my own, just worldview

of, of what my alarm would do.

And I think that's part of
what I, I didn't pick up on it.

And I feel like the, the writer
directors, I think, knew that and

was able to play into it because even
Kate wasn't like had no idea shot him.

And it was like, I have no idea what these
are and just shows like how out of touch.

Uh, people can be with

Rob: that.


I came to the same rationale.

It's just not something that really
plays a regular part in my world.

So it's not something I'm really aware
of, even though it makes complete

sense that that would be the case.

Trey: Yeah.

And, and the way you phrase it, Judith,
like being limited to your worldview,

it feels like something I should
have known because my own personal

anecdote, I used to get really annoyed.

Uh, the, the flashing alarm that people
had, the lights, whenever they get a text.

Cause I thought like, oh, what,
you know, what's the point of that?

It's so distracting, especially,
you know, in dark places.

And it wasn't until I learned,
oh, that's an accessibility thing.

Like that's for people who are
hard of hearing or deaf to know

that they've got a notification.

So that's something that
should have been instilled.

But even here, when it's used
as this device, You know, I had

completely forgotten about it.

So it is nice to get these reinforcements
of a different worldview perspective

and how effectively this show
is using it both as educational

and, uh, within their drama.

So on the topic of the revelation
that this is my as apartment,

did it stand out to anybody else
that Clint puts it together?

That it's Maya's apartment based just
on the fact that Kate is reading the

note to Clint, like the note of like,
Hey, somebody is tracking your family

and Clint goes, Hey, you need to get
out of there it's Maya's apartment.

And at that point he didn't see
anybody are we to read that maybe

Clint is reading that Maya is, is
tracking down his family and his

suspicion was confirmed with this note.

Rob: I think it was the combination
of that and the, the flashing alone.

Um, but yeah, I think, I think that's
a conclusion he definitely comes to.

Jude: Yeah.

And I, I do think those, that that's part
of again, whether or not it's Mockingbird.

I do think that that is clearly
the direction they're going of it's

attaching to his wife because you
find the watch and the note with all

of the list of, of them, you know?

Um, so whether it's his cause even
if it's not, I mean, if you think

about basic revenge stories, right.

Maya doesn't didn't believe Clint
and you get a sense that Maya's

figuring out clinch Ronan, just
as way Kate figured it out.

And so if that's the case, uh, Clint's
families at risk because Ronan killed

my father and I'm prepared to die.

Um, you know, uh, six
fingered man, but like, sorry.


And so, so even if she's not Bobbie,
um, you know, or Mockingbird that,

that it makes sense that it's
going, it's going in that direction.

Cause it's just such a strong thing
about family and Clint, you know,

having hidden his family for so long
and family being important to them, it

makes sense that that's the way it's.

Trey: And speaking of that, Laura, tie-in,
you know, I, we laid out the case earlier

in this episode, why we think that watch
potentially could be, uh, tied to her.

The one thing that I couldn't quite
figure out is why the watch would then

be important to the tracksuit mafia,
but it makes me start to wonder how

long has Maya known if she truly knows
that, you know, Clint is Ronan, this is

his family that watches tied to Laura.

Like, I don't know.

It just opened up a lot of questions
for me about when and where people

are starting to put together.

Clint is Ronan.

Jude: The people that could possibly do
it, Val individually and or collectively,

Rob: Tom knows a hundred percent because
she, uh, in the, the after credit scene

of black widow, the picture that she
shares with you, Elena is Ronin with his

Jude: hood.

Um, PowerBroker, uh, could be a
character in kingpin by kingpins,

the kind of character that would
have that level of connections.

Trey: Yeah.

It's going to be interesting to see
how it all plays out here within

these last couple of episodes.


Jude: See, I, and that can, that's what
makes me go back to Val is, cause you

said Val knows, we know Val knows, um,
you just brought in Julia Louis Dreyfus.

Um, she's only shown up twice if
they are doing the Nick fury thing in

reverse thunderbolts with her she's
bound to show up again very soon.

And there's

Rob: a thunderbolts reference
in this episode as well.


Trey: how so?

Rob: The costume that Yulaina wears
that like stealth suit, uh, the only

major difference between this version
and her thunderbolts version of it

is her hair is exposed in the comics.

And I think her mouth is
exposed that's uh, aside from

that, it's almost identical.

Oh, wow.

Jude: Yeah.


So, yeah, so it's, it can very
easily be Val showing up somewhere.

That might be,

Rob: it wouldn't surprise me
if she's piecing together a

team throughout these series.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

Trey: I do want to take them off to
say what an effective character that

they've only had two appearances and
we're feeling the effects of them

already with such minimal presence.

Oh yeah.


Rob, you brought up a
good point about Yulaina.

Uh, we are getting towards that
big fight scene on the rooftop.

Uh, you know, I thought they did
an incredible job of revealing that

there's actually two assailants at
play here with the way Clinton was

like, yeah, I'm fighting my up here
on the rooftop and Kate's like, Noah,

you're not she's in here with me.

And so it led to that question
of like, who am I fighting?

What a great way to lead
into that action set piece.

Uh, do you have any thoughts overall
about the way that all played out rub?


Rob: man.

And what, like, like you said, such
an incredibly done action scene.

Uh, I w to the point
I was so engaged with.

I completely forgot that Yulaina
was supposed to show up at some

point I did not even consider.


That was her until the
risk tasers were used.

And then I was like, wow, how did I miss?

Like, I was just so into
what was happening that I

couldn't think outside of it.

And then I saw the risk taser and I was
like, why did I not see that sooner?

Trey: Well, you know, I have to say
as somebody who, like one of my most

treasured memories in the MCU was
somehow getting all the way to the

revelation of winter soldier that
it's Bucky and having that moment.

I'm glad you got to get that
with Galaina because I, it felt

like the, the worst kept secret.

And so the fact that it wasn't a
secret for you makes me really happy.

Rob: Yeah.

I like, I'm usually so
good about this stuff.

Trey: That's good writing, right?

When you get sucked in.

Rob: Yeah.

And the fact that they can make
you forget, and the fact that

it can gauge you in that way.

Cause I was so wrapped up with.

The action that was taking place and
the fact that Kate needed to be safe.

And granted, I'm not like really
worried in the back of my mind.

I know they're all going to be okay.

But there was still like, I
was just, I was lost in it.

I think they did a
really, really great job.

Jude: You know, I think I would have
been in the same position as you, if

black widow didn't get delayed a year.

Cause I, I think, I think that was part
of it for me was that was, um, you know,

you hear the rumors, uh Yulaina is gonna
show up, but because it was just this

past summer and you didn't, if you would
have had this now, but not the delay, I

think a lot, even more people would have
had that, that feeling that you had.


So another thing COVID took from us.

So now I will say, because I, I did
right away, I was like, okay, that's

Yulaina, I'm watching that fight.

Hypocrite she's posing.

She did

Rob: on my watch back, I caught it
and I was like, and I miss that too.


Trey: come on, listen, listen.

She's lost someone very important to her.

I think we can grant her that pass
if she's paying homage to exactly.

Jude: She's not posting she's Omar.

Trey: Omar

Rob: doesn't sound cool.

What is quite as good.

Trey: Well, you know, hearkening back
to your Yelaina is inclusion on the

way she was depicted in black widow.

I really like the look of determination on
her face in this episode, which is not to

say she's not a serious character in black
widow, but there was something different

in the way that she was operating there.

She was this person that had just
recently gained agency and she was still

trying to figure out what it is she
wanted to do with her new found life.

And of course, that leads into the actions
of like, Hey, let's, let's dethrone.

The red room what's different in Hawkeye
is she's motivated by truly believing.

She is after the person
who murdered her sister.

So when that mask comes off and you see
how angry she looks, it is, it feels

like a different Yulaina and it's a
Yulaina that is so much more threatening

in a way that I wasn't expecting.

Jude: Yeah.

And I'm wondering who put her there,
like we know what the in credits, right?

So we, we have Val in, you know,
setting up Clint, um, with Elena, but

I thought good point was brought up
earlier, was Zach who element it's

Rob: certainly possible.

I mean, in simplest terms, yelling has
been tracking cleaned down, and this is

where she finally caught up with them.

And it's just a very inopportune
time, but it could absolutely to your

point be that someone called her in
right now because they needed to.

And they, they, that she's been looking
for clin and now somebody knows where

he is and that's the call that's made.

And yeah.


Jude: Um, I am really curious,
uh, how, how that, that happened.

Um, you know, but I mean, this, this fight
sequence was a type of fight sequence.


You know, one of the things
I loved about Sean cheese

fighting is real choreographed.

And I felt like all the fights helped
tell the story and this fight, definitely.

It wasn't just, Hey, what looks cool?

There was, it was definitely helping
tell the story because you get

those callback moments to end game.

Uh, you get Kate not taking
the shot, you get all of that.

And it's, um, that's one of the
things I think made this fight

scene so much fun to watch.

It's a

Trey: illuminating section for Kate
because you know, one of the things that

stood out to me is apart from it being
like a good heads up play, there's some

parallels you can draw with the way Kate
immediately gets the gun out of the play

by flicking into the alley, which is one
of the same moves that Clint does earlier

in the episode when he investigates Kasi.

Um, you see that just because.

Clint has, has cut that rope
and she's down on the ground.

She gets right back up there
into the fight, to the point

where she puts an arrow in Maya.

Like that is, that is a next step in
this path that she is going down and

trying to live that superhero life
that is not an easy decision to make.

And she makes that shot without flinching.


Rob: This is the most aggressive
we've seen her in by far.

Trey: Yeah.

So it is, it is illuminating,
uh, on Kate's part as well.

And, and you mentioned it Jude, but
just to highlight specifically the,

the call, the end game, what a brutal
way for Clint to have to be reminded as

he's holding Kate off the side of the
building, and then you hear the music

from Boromir playing softly in that seat.


Rob: thought it was very
telling too that he literally

cuts her loose in that moment.

Like in that moment he has
that flashback to Vermeer.

And I think that's when he
makes the decision that he can't

risk anything happening to her.

He realizes how much.

She means to him now.

And it's just like, I can't, I like,
I kind of brought Natasha into this,

even though it was by not taking
that shot and saving her there.

It ultimately led to her death and
I can't do this to somebody else.

And he literally cuts her loose.

And, but she's like, Nope,
I'm not going anywhere.

Jude: Well, and I think it's, and so I was
talking to a coworker and in one of his

complaints and it didn't Dawn on me until
you just told what you were just saying,

Rob, but one of his complaints was okay.

Yeah, I get it.

You got to separate them again so
they can come back together and train.

I talk about all the time hero's journey,
story circle, and you got to do that

part of the story, but I think it was
also, I'm hoping this is what we see.

And then coming back together is, is hard.

Have Clint have accepting Kate Bishop
in this role just as Kate had to accept.

Uh, Clint.


And all the things he's, he's done.

And at his lowest, he
needs to accept Kate still.

Um, like he can't just like, like there's
these, like, he can't use her to replace

Natasha and I, and I think that letting go
here was, it was this realization of like,

like, I'm, like you said, I'm endangering
this person and I can't do that.

But also this realization of like, no,
this isn't Natasha and I can't just have

her around because it gives me those
warm, fuzzy feelings again, of having

Natasha, you know, and that's not right.

That's not fair.

I got to let it go.

And so he still has to come to
that point where no I'm taking this

isn't, this can't be a replacement.

You know, this has to be them

Trey: on their own.


It's kind of like what we said that
we're Kate is seeing Clint, not

Hawkeye Clinton needs to see Kate.



And I mean, it's, I mean, for, for as
big of a step as Kate took, like we

said, with the, the taking the shot,
I mean, it's horrifying that shot

where we get the overhead view as Kate
has been flipped by Maya, I believe.

And she almost lands down that hole
into the alleyway, like the way

they frame that was so wonderfully
done because I legitimately thought

she was about to go tumbling down.

And of course she makes it, but.

You like, you get so much more
effectiveness from her actually making

the gap, but making you feel like she
almost didn't because now you're in

Clint, psyche of you could have lost this
person, which gets us to the point where

Clinton is like, you're not my partner.

You never were get out of here.

It is.

It's heartbreaking from where we left
off of last episode and seeing them

work together, becoming more of a
cohesive team to get out of here, kid.

I can't risk you anymore.


Rob: Uh, I do want to specifically call
out what I think is maybe one of the most

brilliant things in this entire scene.

And I think Jude, you
alluded to it very quickly.

Um, there's a moment between
Kate and Yulaina here.

Where earlier in the episode, Clint
talked about the shot that he didn't

take referring to him, knowing that
Nat wanted out and seeing it in her

eyes and as a result, not taking that.

And the same thing happens here.

Kate has a clear shop, bow
drawn at Yulaina and we know

that she's not afraid to shoot.

I think that's one of the
reasons she shoots Maya is

just to illustrate that here.

She's not taking it for a specific reason.

So Yulaina turns around, gives
a little nod to Kate and as a

result, she doesn't take the shot.

I think that's just history

Trey: repeating.

That's a great,

Jude: yeah, I think so too.

I think your God, this is so good.

So good.

This is just a subtle moment.

Like you said, even just that little
quick nod and interaction between the.


Trey: good.

It could be what ends up being
the start of the road towards

Yalaina being swayed too.

Like we're not the bad
guys you think we are.

Um, and so it's, it's, you
know, so often we talk about

the show, not holding our hands.

I think that's a great example
of them trusting us a little bit.

So I'm glad you've spotlighted that rub.

Jude: Do you think, do y'all think
that the, um, that the, the show,

I mean, cause you're limited with
six episodes, you have the story

to tell, you're trying to develop
these characters, you know, you know,

called out it's a, it's a big moment.

She shoots Maya with an arrow.

That's, you know, she had another
human being with an arrow.

That's not an easy thing to do.

I hope.

Um, for most people, um, well, I mean,
I say it that way because like, It's

as a viewer, I'm left with a choice of
like, like, am I accepting this like,

oh, you're capable of this life, or this
is the first time you shot a human being

with an arrow intentionally, you know,
is she gonna have to wrestle with that?

Or we don't have time
for that with this show.

Like I got it.


Because it's part of me that wants
to see that for her own development.

But there's also part of me.

I'm like, there's two episodes.

Let's just move on.

Rob: I think it's not something
they deal with in this stretch,

but maybe moving forward,

Trey: it would, it would be good if
they don't just leave that hanging.

Cause we've already
got a precedent for it.

Like beginning of episode
two, I saw a dead body.

Come on, we'll talk about it.

When we get there, like she is rattled,
like this is, this is not new to her.

So if we do get some service towards
like, Hey, I put an arrow in a person

that would be great development for

Jude: this character.

But it again, it's one of the things
that you don't want to gloss over.

Because we'd like to
think that's a big deal.

Um, but you only have two episodes
left, so hopefully there'll be longer.

You know what?

I'm really hoping that these
last two episodes are going to

be the link to the first two are,

Trey: Hey, I want like full hour Emissary.

You can end

Rob: game maze and I'm totally fine.

Like, let's go three hours.

Trey: This is a tent.

Like how long would you comfortably
accept an episode on Disney plus?

Jude: Yeah.

Oh, and episode two hours.


Trey: Rob, you did say the end game.

So I'm assuming that you're
in the ballpark there as well.

Rob: Give me as much as
you can to this series.

I can't get enough right now.


Jude: Yeah.

Well, I mean, two hours is basically
the first two episodes back to back.



You know, and, and I have to say
two hours because I keep putting.

They should be eight episodes.


Eight is the sweet spot.

Why are we getting six?

Trey: I agree.

Well, you know what?

I got one more thing I want to bring up.

Uh, and I think that we'll wrap
it up unless there's any more.

Uh, but it's more of an open
question to the both of you,

you know, I get how we got here,
where Clint saying, all right, go.

I can't risk this anymore.

You're way too young to be
involved in this, which has

gotten real serious real quickly.

Am I the only one that feels,
it's a little weird that he's

pushing her away after both of
our assailants have seen her face.

One of which Kate shot with an arrow,
does that not seem like the right move?

Rob: That is a part I did not consider
until you asked the question just now,

because I'm just thinking, I'm thinking
purely from the storytelling perspective

of this had to happen because you have
to split them up to bring them together.

We all know this.

But I did not consider that part of it.

And that is a terrifying
thought, but it feels a little

irresponsible at this point.

Maybe more irresponsible.


So it'd be like, yeah.

Um, you're on your own now.


Jude: So Clint Barton
is worse than Batman.

Bruce Wayne,

Rob: Batman never abandoned a Robin.

Although we don't know that he's not going
to be looking out for her from a distance.

He is hot guy.


Trey: what he is very true.

Very true.

I think I said maybe, maybe I should just
lean into my role this season where I

point out the most vulnerable, like fan
favorites last week, tune in next week

and find out who else I exposed his phone.


Jude: man.

Trey: Uh, like I said, I think that's
going to wrap up that important topic.

It was a bit of a shorter episode,
so we didn't have as many defined

topics, but we always have the
tried and trued stray thoughts.

So, Rob, do you have any stray
thoughts for this episode?


Rob: have only one and
it's, it's nothing major.

Uh, but as a fairly experienced baker,
those Snickerdoodles look awful.

Trey: They're

Rob: all puffy in the middle and
they're flat around the edges.

It's just weird.

I don't know what temperature
they were cooking that at it.

No, no, I'm not eating those, those like

Jude: awful.

That's hilarious.

And I will say having watched Rob's,
uh, some or at least what was it?

The one of the baking stream.

And I can't remember which one in
particular you were making so good.

Anyway, Rob knows what he's talking about.

Definitely something we're jumping into.

Trey: And yeah, like one of my favorite
things about when you do those cooking

streams, you always have a rotation
wheel of things that you have cooked.

So not only am I getting hungry, watching
you cook stuff, you are displaying all

your stuff that you've made before it is.

If you've not checked it out, make sure
you're following Rob poke on Twitter

and Twitch because you frequently, uh,
share the things that you've baked.

So I trust your authority here on
these, uh, crappy snickerdoodle.

I'm so glad you brought that up.

What about you, dude?

Jude: Uh, you know what I am I, my biggest
stray thought is goes back to the party.

I liked the use of, well, this
whole show I've loved to use for

the Christmas music throughout.

Um, but I like the use or I
love the use of, um, it's a

wonderful life at the party.

I'm just playing in the background
and when she flicks the coin and

comes on, it's the scene and I'm
like getting into it and raising my

hands in the air and, you know, um,
so yeah, I, I just, I don't know.

I, that that really
worked for well for me.

Um, yeah.

Trey: You know what I'm going
to stick with that party scene.

A couple of straight thoughts that party
is straight up a vendor's party, 2.0, uh,

maybe a little more on the introverted
or side, like we were joking, but it

felt like the Avengers party to me, uh,

Jude: I love that was TK, sporty.

Trey: Yeah.

Flannels and drinks.

Uh, you know, I love the way they
led into that conversation about

shooting an arrow and then trying to
split another split that arrow with

another one mid-flight and how Kate
is like, I've tried, it's impossible.

And Clint's like, no, I've done it.

Like the little touches they
had of that to show their

competitive nature was so good.

And on top of that, uh, I find it very
amusing if not dark that in an episode

where Clint is teaching Kate, how to
snap a coin in, at a target, he was

drinking at a mug called Thanos was right.

So that was a little
dark, but funny to me.

And finally.

Oh, this is a related to the boomerang.

It could be nothing, but it's funny to
me that the episode that the boomerang

girls are brought up, we see some sort of
weird boomerang type decoration and Maya's

apartment as Kate enters in that doorway.

So again, sometimes curtains are
just blue, but it, it was funny

that it was brought up and we
see that decoration in the sun.

Rob: Yeah.

I didn't catch that

Jude: right now.

So I do want to point out
tray that you didn't enjoy the

snapping of the coin trick.

Yes, but yet stick can't do
the trick with the bottle.

It's all

Trey: Daredevil in the ricochets.

There's no ricochets with, with
Clint lo Rob, if you don't know,

would we started this podcast?

He was the original truck.

We covered.


Are you familiar with that show?

Oh yeah.

Rob: Oh yeah.

I watched all that.

I didn't stop after the first
season, like some people, so,

Trey: wow.



Jude: that has you shouldn't have

Trey: it's so good.

It is good.

The only thing stopping me now is
whether or not I should wait for

when we cover it on the pocket.

Rob: He's coming back.

So I would get on that
as soon as possible.

So you're as familiar with
the Daredevil as you need

Trey: to be.

Jude: You have between now and next
Wednesday for Fisk get caught up.

Trey: I'll see what I can do,
but anyway, that's my official

stance and I'm sticking to it.

The amount of ricochets is how much
I'm going to enjoy somebody using

Jude: trick shots.




Trey: Well, I think that's going
to wrap up our stray thoughts.

Uh, so that's going to
take us into our listeners.

First takes.

So starting with this one, this
one comes in from Ben dot Mattie

on Insta, and it reads an episode
full of great character development.

The end left me wanting
next week's episode.

Now what I'm most excited for is we
get to see another side of Yulaina.

It looks like we're going to see a
darker, more focused and serious side

compared to the joking, slightly carefree,
upbeat character we saw in black widow.

And I definitely have to agree.

That was one of the things that,
that stood out to me with Julina's

inclusion in this episode, uh, the

Jude: next one comes from Fran,
Daniel on Instagram or Insta or

IgE, depending on you and ask

Trey: Rob this one, too.

Jude: I generationally, like I say,
Instagram and I, and so I've been trying

to figure out who says Insta, who says,

Rob: I say Instagram,
I'm not about all these.

So I am notorious among my
friends for hating internet lingo.

Uh, and, and I say the proper
names of everything personally.


Jude: So friend Daniel
on Instagram loved it.

Great interaction, character
moments, and action.

Uh, yeah.

You know, completely agree, but also
say friend Daniel has on the discord

has really been pushing Mockingbird.

Like he's, I think he's
all in on that one.

Rob: I was shocked.

This is the first time I've
heard that theory at all.

So a very interesting, very.

The next one is from caption life on
Instagram, who says still good, not

as great as the others, but I love
the Christmas celebration scene.

I absolutely couldn't care with loving
the Christmas celebration scene.

I don't know if I would say it's
not as good as the other episodes.

I think this one was on par.

Um, I really enjoyed it.

Jude: Well, I will say I read
his review and it was similar.

The, the stuff that I, that, that
he pointed out was similar to Trey's

question about like, wait a minute,
they've seen his, her face now.

You know, it's like, it was like a little
moments like that scattered throughout the

episode that kind of took him out of it.

I get that.

Trey: Yeah, for me, like, I like pointing
that stuff out because it is fun to

step outside of it, but I'm totally
fine with the story, bending some stuff.

If it fits narratively with what
they're trying to accomplish.

And they definitely accomplish the
splitting of Clinton, Kate, for me,

Jude: Yeah, well, and that was just say
for me, and I go back to this story about

star wars, a new hope the way, or if
you watch it, there's that scene towards

the end and Luke Skywalker's hair's wet.

Cause they just get out of the trash
compactor, Harrison Ford Han solo, all

their hair is dry and Luke's and mark
Hamill was like, your hair's not wet.

Like they're going to notice
there's a continuity here.

And Harrison Ford was like, look kid,
if people are noticing this they've

we have not, we have completely
lost them on our movie, you know?

And so like for me, there's an
element of like, I felt like I was

sucked in enough to like, I didn't
even like what you brought up tray.

I didn't notice any of that stuff.


Rob: So nor did I, I feel like a lot of
that stuff comes from the rewatch and the

level of analysis that we're applying to.

Trey: Okay, cool.

Moving along.

Uh, this next one is from, oh, shoot pod.

You know, Ellie.

Then we had as a guest last
week and she says, so good.

I love this episode so happy.

My girl is finally back.

And I think one of the things that I
responded to this was by saying like,

she called it, she was really hyping
up Yulaina and, uh, yeah, it's, it's

good to see that come through here.

Jude: Uh, last one, the story has hit
some predictable beats, but the dynamic of

Clinton, Kate continues to be a highlight.

The two are both awesome and action, or
just having some downtime, hoping Kate

and Katie from Sean, she get to meet up
and go pew pew with their arrows together.

Uh, that was, uh, from kid on

Trey: Twitter.


If we don't get.

And Katie at some point bonding over the
archery, I'm gonna be really disappointed.

So I agreed with Ken there.

Rob: I can see a scene in my brain where
Katy's running up to Kate and being

like, look, I can shoot arrows and shoots
one in Kate, splits it from this and

Trey: goes, yeah, me too.



What a great way to do that.

Oh, I hope that happens.

Jude: Since Kevin foggy super fan.

We're the creative team
here, wherever we're

Rob: just writing, writing on the fly.

This is, this is free,
but we'd like to get paid.


Trey: make it happen.

Well, I want to say thank you for
everybody that sent in their first takes.

We really appreciate it.

It's so much fun to get to
read these on the podcast.

So if you're listening and you want to
get in on this action, make sure you're

following us on Twitter and Instagram at
MC you need to know, uh, we put up our

pre spoiler thoughts about the episode
the day it airs, if not the day after.

And that is where you can reply
and let us know what you thought of

the episode as well with listeners
first takes out of the way though.

That's going to leave us with our final
bit the predictions for episode five.

So, Rob, do you have any
predictions for next week's?

Rob: I have only one and it is
incredibly minor because I'm so

scared about making big predictions.


I, I don't, I don't, I don't know like
this, I'm so delighted by this series

that I'm just happy to be on the ride
and I'm not doing that like forward

analysis as much where like, series like
one division just invited it this time.

I'm just like, take me
where you want to go.

I'm here for it.

Um, my only thing and it's tied heavily
to this episode is at some point, Kate

is going to use that coin flicking
against somebody because you rarely

introduce a new move like that without
having it pay off at some point.

Trey: That's good.

I like that a lot.

It's a it's checkoffs coin.


Jude: Well, I feel the same way
Rob is I'm just enjoying the ride.

Um, I'm going to go with two predictions.

I want to go with the safe prediction,
just so I win some points here.

Um, you know, Elaina and Clint are going
to talk to each other at some point, uh,

next episode, uh, now in all seriousness,
the big prediction that I have.

And, um, I really wouldn't go
out on this limb here, and this

is kind of a prediction for
both episodes with two left.

I really feel comfortable saying this,
and I know you can hear it on the mic.

I'm a knock on wood real quick.

I feel like this show's going
to overcome the problem.

Other episodes, other series of
had, and being the final episode

is just the action set piece.

You know, like, like where we felt
that in Falcon and winter soldier felt

that a little bit in wander vision of
like, okay, we just got to get the big

action Marvel set piece out of the.

At the end, you know, I really feel like
the show is going to overcome that and

really be able to pull the story all
the way through to the end successfully.

Um, and I don't know if it's going
to be because of lesson learned or

just because the show was able to
be grounded all the way to the end.

Um, but that, I really think
that the show is going to do

Trey: that.

It's the pizza dog
little engine that could,

Jude: it is.

Where's my Vista showing up.

Trey: So right after
Kate, does the coin flip?


Rob: it'll emerge from somebody's
forehead that it could snag.

Trey: She'll smack somebody straight
on the forehead who just goes

completely perpendicular comes back up.

Uh, no, my, uh, my prediction for next
episode, uh, I've been kind of teasing it.

I I've mentioned how much.

I think Maya is on the
scent of Clint's family.

Uh, how interesting it is that
Kate is being shooed away after

Maya has completely identified her.

I think next episode, Clint
is going to confess to my

appoint blank, no more running.

That'll be how he learns that Maya wasn't
going purely for the revenge kill of him.

She's going after his family first.

And that will be the big
revelation of next week's episode.

So call him a shot here.

I haven't been doing too great on
predictions this week or this series.

So, uh, hopefully I can turn
it around with this episode.


Jude: So no, no Fisk is showing up.

Ah, I

Trey: don't know.

I have, I have a hunch that,
that may be all we see.

I think, I think we get more
of a confirmation, but I

think that hand is all we see

Jude: we're right at the end.

And I, and I meant to ask
this in a straight thought.

So I'm gonna just throw this
out there real quick, just

to get your thoughts on it.

Uh, there was a rumor that this.

Uh, episode was supposed to have
an intact and it got pulled late.

No, I didn't.

I didn't get, I didn't want to go
too far down the rabbit hole of what

that in tag was supposed to be, but
how are you feeling about not having

an intact yet with these episodes?

Because around this episode,
four is where the other shows

started to drop in, in Tech's.

Rob: She talked about this a little
bit when I was on an episode in

the past, is that the only place
I want them as the final episode?

Trey: Yeah, it was, it was when
we were talking low-key it was

D it was a little side tangent
conversation we had at the end.

So I'm glad you brought this up
with Rob and I, I agree with him.

Uh, last episode only is where I want
to see the in tags on these series.

Okay, cool.

Jude: Yeah, me too.

Um, but I just, I came across that
room earlier today that there's

this supposed to have something
in it and it, and it got cut.

Trey: Well, cool.

Those are our predictions.

Uh, Rob, I gotta say thank you
so much for joining this episode.

He was an absolute delight to have you

Rob: back.

Now this, this was great.

Like w what is this my fourth,
third, fourth time now I

can't even keep track anymore.

Um, but no, this was absolutely a delight
and I'm absolutely loving this series.

So discussing this one was
like, even more exciting for me.

Jude: Awesome.

Trey: Awesome.


And if you want to hear more of Rob's
work, make sure you're following them, uh,

at the rom Logan on Twitter and Twitch,
as well as checking out their geek news

brief at geek news brief on Tik TOK,
as well as most podcasting platforms.

Uh, and once more, they do have
a link tree, which we'll link in

the show notes, where you can find
all of their creative pursuits.

Uh, so once again, Rob, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now, as far as this show, if you want
to get in touch with us on what you

thought of the episode, your predictions,
your stray thoughts, whatever it may

be, you can reach us at MC you need
to know on Twitter and Instagram.

Uh, it's a great place to connect with us.

Uh, we'll be putting some extra
content that does not make

the episode feed up on those.

So if you want more of this
show, you can find us there.

Jude: And of course, scroll down
to the bottom of the show notes,

click and join our discord.

We have a fun community.

They're talking about
wide range of things.

In fact, just this week, we, or we
added a new channel on book readings

and stuff to talk about what we're
reading, especially going into 2022.

Um, those you, you know, into
the future, you can jump in

and tell us what you did read.

Um, I mean sure though, you're there
for the Marvel content click on the

role assigned and click on the emojis.

It'll get you access to
all the spoiler channels.

Um, of course it's the season of giving.

Make sure you share this with a friend.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is his

rendition of the Avengers theme that you
find more of his work on the SoundCloud,

which is linked in the show notes as well.

Well, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for
listening, Robin, Jude.

Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you.



Jude: you, Trey.


Trey: you, Rob.

We'll see you all next week.

Okay, pause.

Uh, rod, I can put, you forgot to ask
if you were comfortable with this.

Uh, I don't know if you
see it in the outline.

We do have them listed, uh, if
you're cool with reading one,

Rob: uh, we usually go,
yeah, I totally can.

I have, uh, I have to open it
because I have the, um, like I save

a local copy to put my notes into

Jude: the doc.

The outline I'm looking
at it doesn't have them.


Trey: should be there.


Let me see.

Oh, really?


What did I do?

Oh my gosh.

They're white.

So I use

Jude: texts.

Trey: So I used night mode in
Google and that explains why my

copied notes into a different app.

They weren't there
because the text is white.

Jude: Oh man.


Are you able to change that?

I changed it.

I can see

Trey: them now.


Jude: Oh my gosh.

Yeah, it was, it was,

Trey: this is a bad season for me.

I can't do Mathis episodes.

I can't wrap it up.

The third one.

I can't use Google.

I thought sound was blowing
bubbles with the goop and this

Rob: episode, I think when I downloaded
it anyway, it was before you put them in.



Trey: yeah.

That's the official story
we're sticking with it.


Oh man.


So, uh, the way we do it is I take a
to take B and Rob you take C uh, and we

just read it and just throw out a quick
comment of what we think of the pers, the,

the, the thought that the person like,

Rob: look, I don't know this
person, but I'm happy to just

create an opinion on the fly.


Trey: what else is the internet for?

Oh man.

And I thought we were going
to get out of here for that.

Any goofs.

Oh, man.

Creators and Guests

Jude (Hubbit)
Jude (Hubbit)
Catholic | Still trying to make sense of things | Co-host of @MCUNeedtoKnow Podcast | mcuneedtoknow@gmail.com
Trey Solis
Trey Solis
One day I woke up painfully aware of my existence and I’ve been apologizing for it ever since.
Rob Logan
Rob Logan
🎙Podcast Producer/Editor/Host: @GeekGeneration, @QuantumDrivePod, Random Movie Club || 📸Photographer || 🎮Streamer || 🎂Baker || 📧 rob@thegeekgeneration.com
Join our Discord here
As always, share with a friend
and shout out Nick Sandy