Trey: Hello, and welcome back to another
episode of MCU Need to Know a podcast

dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic
Universe and everything you need to know.

I'm Trey.

Jude: I'm Jude.

How are you doing Trey?

Trey: Well, Jude, I'm excited
because today we get to welcome a

podcasting duo whose Marvel scope
extends beyond Disney plus and the

movies, you can find them rewinding
and reviewing every week on the podcast

MCU Rewind, but today I'm delighted
to welcome Al, and Tony to the show.

Welcome guys.

Jude: Welcome guys.

Al: Hey, hey!

Tony: Hey,

Trey: Hey, how's it it going?

Tony: Thanks for having us.

Jude: Yeah.

Thanks for coming.

Trey: Yeah.

So you two have been running
MCU Rewind since July of 2017.

First of all.

Congratulations, because that
is an incredible amount of time.

And it's

so cool.

Al: Yeah, we, we did our, uh, four-year
episode recently and, uh, I think at the

end I kept saying to Tony, like, thanks.

There are only so many things that
I've done this long because of Tony.

Trey: Oh man.

It's funny how, whenever you
dedicate to a project that long,

it really puts into perspective.

You know, when you're dealing
at large gaps of time like that,

Jude: So four years,
what got y'all started?

What, what made you to decide,
Hey, we're doing a podcast.

Tony: Um, I have been wanting
to do a podcast for a long time.

Uh, I actually was, this was in
the heyday of the movies by minutes

podcast, you know, Star Wars,
minutes Back to the Future minutes

I went to Al saying, I want to do
a Marvel cinematic universe minutes.

So start with Iron Man one minute at
a time, three or five days a week.

And thank God, Al talked me out of that.

Yeah, that was going to be my
first podcast, our first podcast.

And I was thinking well it's
not going to be that hard.

Um, since then Al and I have both
independently tried to do second podcasts

and we figured out that was too much
work, doing more than one episode a week.

But I do like the like complete I'm
a completionist I will play every

spinoff of Kingdom Hearts I will watch
every minor episode of Star Wars.

So I wanted to like fully
in depth into Marvel.

So we decided to do all of
Marvel, all of everything.

This is how to consider it now,
everything that was intended to be

in the Marvel cinematic universe.

So when it was made, it
was planned to be that way.

Trey: So even from the beginning
or the Genesis of MCU rewind,

the Marvel television shows
were on the docket as well.

Al: Oh yeah.

Trey: That's awesome.

It's really interesting to hear you
frame it as like being a completionist

like, I like that approach to
tackling this behemoth of a franchise.

Al: Yeah.

It's daunting.

We have it planned out to what?

2026.

We don't have any of the Disney
plus stuff scheduled yet.

Jude: Now I look at your schedule
and you had 2026 are y'all ending

there or are you going to keep
going to extend that schedule?

Al: Well, to be honest, uh, I mean,
I don't, I don't think we even know

if we're gonna make it that far.

I mean, like, and I'm not saying like,
oh, we just want to give up some day,

but you know, like in our mind, It's
it's very easy to like plan out the

episodes cause we do the one a week.

Um, but we we've kinda talked like,
all right, well, at some point maybe

something with life will get in
the way and maybe we'll just stop.

Maybe this is a good spot to
stop or something like that.

So, I mean, we have absolutely no idea.

We're just going, we'll see what happens.

That's kind of our current mindset.

Tony: In my mind, we will make it
either to the end of The Infinity Saga

or few months after that Agents of
Shield finish or we can go on forever,

Jude: Alright, hey forever is good.

That's okay.

Trey: Yeah.

If I'm not mistaken, I was listening
to the Spider-Man part one and y'all

were joking about like once y'all
finish up with the MCU, then I think

there was like star wars on the table
or other, other franchises as well.

So it's cool that you'll
have that plan moving.

Tony: Yeah.

Um, we have a running joke
that we're going to cover the

Scorpion King Movies.

Trey: That one should be
worthy of the minute by minute.

Jude: Yes.

Trey: So I'm assuming there was a
connection before the podcast, but how

far back does that love of Marvel go?

And if we can start with you, Al.

Al: Oh, yeah.

Um, I mean, it goes back to, as a kid,
pretty much watching the cartoons on

Fox, uh, just fell in love with those.

And then, uh, as a teenager, uh,
I pretty much just started going

to a comic shop on weekends.

A friend got me to go for, uh,
like playing tabletop games and

then that just kind of expanded
into like, well, I'm here.

What are these cool comic books
that I've never actually read, but

I've only seen them in cartoons.

And so that just kind
of expanded from there.

Uh, and then as soon as the
movies came out, it was just

like, love at first sight.

Trey: Yeah.

The hook line and sinker with that.

What was the, what was the first
one that got your attention?

Is it pre iron man or was
iron man the one to do it?

Al: I mean, I mean, as
far as the, the movies.

Yeah.

I guess Ironman was the first one that
really got me into the Marvel movies.

You know, see, I, I know I watched
all of the other ones before, but I

never, never cared as much, you know,
for years I just liked the cartoons

way, way more because, you know, as a
TV show, you can do kind of more and

they're their cartoon, so it's easier
to do cool graphics, that kind of stuff.

Right.

So, um, it wasn't until iron man came out.

And I, I know I've told Tony this
a ton of times, but just seeing the

cool animation of just the gears, the
first time he's putting the suit on

the one that he makes, not the one in
the desert, like, oh, that is so cool.

I could just, I could
just watch that all day.

Trey: Yeah.

Well, what about you, Tony?

Tony: How I got into it was
ago was this going to be pretty

heretical on this podcast?

And my podcast as a little
kid, I was more of a DC guy.

I'm, you know, I was into a Batman, the
animated series Justice League that,

but when I was 12 years old, this movie
called X-Men, came out and blew my mind

because like, they can all have different
powers and there are hundreds of them.

And I kind of fell into the
comics around that time.

And my older cousin, he's about 12 years
older than me was a huge Spider-Man guy.

And he just gave me like
loads of Spider-Man comments.

Trey: Oh, wow.

Tony: Like he kept like the ones that
he loved, but I got a bunch of like

part two of seven and stuff like that.

Um, so I kind of fell into it and
like from the first X-Men movie,

cause Blade just went right past me.

I was too young for that.

From the first X-Men movie.

I was like, every time it was superhero,
even though it's a superhero, I've never

heard of, I'm going to go see this movie
and we'll find out who they are and

their backstories and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And it's just like, since, since then
with very few exceptions, I still love

DC, but Marvel on screen has blown
everything DC's done out of the water.

So

Jude: Yes.

Trey: Yeah,

Tony: Yeah

Trey: Yea that's cool.

And what a, what an interesting way
to, to dive into it by having a gift

of those comics to get you started.

So that's awesome.

Jude: I had a very similar
experience, but I didn't know, like

I didn't realize Blade cause I, I
really stuck with the mainstream.

Like when I was younger, I had X-Men
comics and I was more DC comics.

Um, and I collected comics right
around the whole doomsday Superman.

Storyline.

And so when Blade came out, I
remember seeing the movie, I loved

it, but I had no idea cause I,
cause I had read more DC comics

Trey: Do either of, y'all still
keep up with the comics today?,

Tony: Um, in the last, well, during
the pandemic, I've subscribed to Marvel

unlimited and I've been catching up
cause I fell off for a long time.

Jude: Completionist on that?

Tony: It's too much, man.

You got to have limits.

That's my that's my hardest
thing with, uh, comics in

general is like, I'll read this.

Well, actually I need to
start back here at this event.

Well, actually these seven
things started this event.

I keep going back further and further.

I have like anything that's over 20
years old, unless it's like dark,

Phoenix saga or something huge.

I just have to live with myself somewhere.

Al: I complain often about disliking time
travel, but I gotta say, uh, you know,

keeping track of the, the comic book
storyline of, you know, which thing to

read first and second and, and waiting
to read something else first, before you

can read the next thing in the story.

Like, I think that's harder, that's
harder to deal with in your mind.

Keep tracking of those stories.

Those timelines.

Trey: It is 100%.

The reason why it wasn't until the
MCU movies that I finally got into the

superhero side of stuff, like diehard,
because it's what you described as

like, I don't know where to start.

And so I just, you know, uh,
analysis paralysis just stopped.

I didn't get to choose any of them.

Yeah.

Cool.

So if you haven't already, you should
definitely be checking out their show.

MCU rewind.

You can find it on most podcast platforms,
or if you go to www.mcurewind.com, you

should be able to find their show there.

Of course, if you've downloaded this
episode, then you know, we're going

to be discussing, bringing in the
Marvel television stories to the MCU.

So just to set the stage a little
bit, a few weeks ago, James Gunn

put out a tweet that essentially
stated that all shows prior to Disney

plus were not cannon to quote him.

He said there was never any coordination
between the earlier TV stuff and

the cinematic side of Marvel.

Like there is now that they're all
under the purview of the Marvel studios.

So even before James Gunn's stirring
of the pot, uh, the connection

between the MCU and the other
shows have always been a debate.

So knowing that you two have been
championing, the often shunned

shows, we really wanted to take
some time to talk about them today.

I think the easiest place to
start is by defining the personal

importance of the MCU cannon.

So, starting with you,
Tony, what do you think?

Tony: Well, I have a conflicting
feelings about quote unquote canon.

Um, I love the vast majority
of the Marvel TV shows.

So even if they're not cannon, I
still, there's still stories I enjoy.

And I still love those characters.

I love the characters and shield.

I love I'm most of the Netflix
characters, but we'll talk

about some of them later, but

Trey: I can, I can feel that
the stay and I'm excited

Tony: if there was ever
a shred of this could be.

And I'm clinging onto that with all my
mind, because I would love these things.

I already loved to be part of, to be
recognized by the vast majority of fans.

So it's fine that they're not
cannon, but they are candidates.

That would be amazing.

That's where my mind,

Trey: I like that.

Yeah.

I think it's when we
guessed it on your show.

I can't remember the exact.

Context at which it came up, but it was
the discussion of the Sokovia Accords.

And you, I think Tony, you were
going to bat for it in the episode.

And I was like, this is awesome.

I love, I love how much you were.

It's like you said, trying to hold
onto that shred of continuity.

So that's cool.

Tony: Yeah.

Our biggest headache.

Al: Oh yeah.

So often it's just used as this,
like, oh, this has to happen.

Why?

Uh, because of the Sokovia Accords.

Oh, okay.

And then like, they kind of say
that and then they don't really go

back to it and it happens a lot.

Trey: It seems like a real easy catchall
for any of those hiccups in the show.

Yes.

But yeah.

What about you Al?

Al: Yeah.

Um, okay.

I mean, Similar to what Tony said.

I, you know, I love the fact that we
have more stories that are already there.

And so I'm, I am very, very desperately
clinging onto the fact that the TV shows

that previously existed are part of
the MC especially my absolute favorite

show agents of shield, because one of
the main stars Colson was in like all,

but one of the phase, one MCU movies,
there were some cameos by two other

characters in the first two seasons.

This isn't really a.

Like a spoiler or anything, but I mean,
even, uh, Nick fury shows up as like

a, an after credit scene in, um, in
the first season and when one of the

episodes, and there are a couple, a
couple of other characters too, who

were in the movies and then we get like
a small cameo of them in that show.

And so.

You know, that kind of
just really takes it away.

If you know, they started
as, Hey, this is MCU.

Uh, well maybe never mind.

I mean, yes, they were separate.

They were made by separate groups.

Um, I don't fully understand that.

I know toady can explain that way better.

Yeah.

Uh, but different studios made them,
uh, and there was probably like, you

know, internal politics involved with,
well, what characters can we use?

What we want to use
this one, well, too bad.

We're going to use this character
here, you know, that kind of stuff.

And so Kevin fi he had a quote, um,
back in, uh, February of this year.

Uh, and I forgot where it was, but
the quote from him was, um, when in

relation to the, the MCU shows being
on Disney plus was, uh, for the first

time with Interlake or with interlink.

Uh, so the MCU will be on your TV screen
at home at Disney plus and interconnect

with the movies and go back and forth.

Which, uh, I mean, from there, he's
basically saying like, this is the first

time because it's the one studio, uh,
we don't have to fight with anyone else.

So.

I, I get that the, uh, wanting to
like start fresh kind of concept with

some of these characters, like not
have to deal with the, uh, you know,

uh, I guess legacy is the phrase
that I would use, even though the

legacy is like two or four years old.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, no, it's interesting because
star wars went that way, where

you have the legacy and what is
Canon or is it legacy or legends?

It's like all this stuff
prior to Disney owning it.

Yeah.

Tony: It's legends.

And I mean, I understand that because
just like in comics, I was really.

Uh, hesitant to get into when the
pre Disney acquisition, all the star

wars stuff, but since they rebooted
it, I mean, I'm in completion, that's

with that, I've been trying to read
them novels and keeping up with

the comments and stuff like that.

Al: Yeah.

And, and unfortunately that
is also kind of different too.

Right.

Cause, um, with star wars, the
different TV shows are still part of

the, the same cannon, at least now
that you know, everything Disney makes.

Um, so like, uh, trying to think of an
example, like the current show that the

cartoon, the bad batch, the clone wars,
um, you know, all the movies they are,

even though those are made by, I'm pretty
sure they're made by different studios.

Uh, they're all still
within the same cannon.

Tony: Yeah.

Um, uh, uh, star wars is
doing it right because.

What I want, going back to the
cannon question is like in rogue

one, you see the robot from star wars
rebels going just in the background.

He has, there's no bearing on the
story, anything but me as a fan, who

knows who that droid it is, it's just
like his chopper does all I want.

Jude: Right.

Well, the seat ghost and the, you
know, the ship and Scott Walker.

Tony: Yeah, exactly.

If we could see, um, unreal bitter
about, uh, in age of Ultron,

when the hell carrier comes up.

The easiest way to get one or two
agents of shield characters just in the

background, out of, um, at a station
on the carrot, the Heller carrier.

But

Trey: yeah, I think to kind of sum up my
feelings with it after, after listening

to you too, is there is this clear
feeling that at one point they were

trying to make this all interconnected.

And so, uh, ally, when you were
mentioning that quote about Kevin,

FYGI saying for the first time they're
interlinked it, is this, this feeling

of like, somebody's like, all right,
I'm going to take my toys and go home.

Like, it's just kind of shunning
off the, what was once there.

And Tony, it is.

It's hard to see that because the
way you described it, I know there

are others out there that are like,
when they see those little nods back

and forth between the shows or the
movies, it is that feeling of elation.

And so I think that's, what's always
fascinated me about this limbo, I guess,

is the best way you can put it between
the Marvel television and Marvel studios.

Were those the two?

Al: Yes.

I think those were the two.

Yeah.

Trey: And so, yeah, I've always
been fascinated to see how that gets

reconciled, especially within the fandom

Tony: as well.

I can wrap my head and we'll talk to me.

And I talked about this.

I can like weave my mind around it to
like justify yes, they are still Canon

because this doesn't conflict with this
and this doesn't conflict with that.

So it's like, in my mind, even
though I know it's kind of BS,

Trey: you know, what it feels like
we're kind of dancing around it.

So I think this might be a good
place to go to the spoiler zone.

So normally whenever we set this
up, this is with regards to the

movies and the Disney plus shows.

But with this spoiler zone, we
are going to be getting into the

discussion of the Netflix and
Marvel television shows as well.

You're going to hear an audio cue and
on the other side, it'll be fair game

for all spoilers of those criteria.

So we'll see you on the other side, right?

Like I mentioned earlier,
I feel like the easiest.

Wait for me to describe it is
this feeling of limbo with Marvel

television and Marvel studios.

But with that in mind, if you're
in charge of choosing, do you bring

in complete shows or would you pick
and choose the characters that get

brought in from the Netflix and Marvel
television side of the Marvel universe?

If we can start with you this time, Tony.

Well,

Tony: it's really, I think
a case by case basis.

Um, there are some shows like
definitely Daredevil and Jessica

Jones where their third season ended.

And they're kind of at the end of that
journey, but really ready to start a

next adventure just has decided to be
part of New York city and stay there

and continue with our investigation.

And, uh, Matt Murdock has decided
that he's reconnected with foggy

and Karen, and is, but still going
to continue to be there level.

Those are great, starting off
points like, so we can have a

Spiderman style introduction
where we don't need a backstory.

If you care about his backstory, you
can go back and watch the shows, right?

So with Matt and Jessica, you can
just pluck those characters and maybe

some supporting tasks, if you really
want to and put them in the MCU.

Luke and iron fist, the Cajun iron fist
ended their seasons, kind of, both of them

cliffhanger is ready for a third season.

So if you pluck those characters out for
those fans of the TV show, it would not

be satisfying because I don't see Marvel
studios wine to continue those stories

in a feature film, or even a Disney plus.

Cause it's kind of too
dark for Disney plus.

Yeah.

Trey: You know, that's the one of the
first hangups, because as far as my

familiarity with the Netflix shows,
Daredevil's the only one that I've

seen the, uh, season and a half of.

And.

And that's the thing that I always
get stuck on is like, man, totally.

I don't know how it fits into the
MCU, which generally leans more

towards cheery little comical.

Like they get serious, but nowhere
near as serious as Daredevil

gets at least of what I've seen.

But I got to say, I really
appreciate the way you had framed it.

Cause I've never thought about
it that way of a Daredevil.

And I think you said Jessica Jones,
their stories are complete, but when

Luke cage and iron fist, not so much.

So I never thought about
that before, and that's an

interesting way to think about it.

Jude: Well, I'm going to
just say what that Luke cage.

Man the way season two ended
I'm I'm still, I'm still

wishing to see the end of that.

It was, it was a really good cliffhanger.

I, I completely agree with you on that,
on that idea though, that, um, I don't

think if they did that, they would
want to, that they would finish it.

Um, yeah, totally.

And just, it just doesn't seem like
something that they want to, they would

pick up, which is unfortunate actually.

Al: Yeah, exactly.

I mean maybe if they, you know,
brought those characters in, they

might reference something about that.

Um, or, you know, just ignore.

You know, th that, that kind of style,
you know, I kind of wonder also, like, you

know, let's say they bring in any of these
characters from any of the shows, you

know, especially let let's talk about the
specifically these, uh, the ones on the

Netflix shows, like if they bring these
characters in and they recast them, like

that gets hard to like, have that head
Canon and say, okay, well, it's the same.

Like you could, you could say it.

Okay, well it's okay, mate.

Maybe they got one of the, the
accurate to say the same, but it

gets a little, a little hard to
like then say like, well, are these

actually the same characters, right?

Because, you know, you could make
the argument that, yeah, maybe

these characters have just changed.

It's been some number of years.

All of the Netflix shows happened
before, uh, the events of infinity war.

And so maybe you could say that they
were, they stuck around during the snap.

Maybe they've had more time to
grow and change that kind of thing.

Um, and so now this is just a completely
different part of their lives.

It's been.

Eight years or something to that effect.

I mean, you could just
make up a number really.

So, and, you know, at that point,
like yeah, their, their life is

going to be very different from the
stories that they left off with.

You know, maybe you could just mention
that someday, that previous story, uh, if

they want to, or really, they can probably
get away with just never mentioning it.

Like that's also entirely possible.

And then, you know, those of us who
were really clinging to these being

part of the MCU at least get to
keep telling ourselves that, well,

Jude: you know what, they could
probably use the blip to their

Trey: advantage, the blip, or, I mean,
even Loki, the multi-verse like, I mean,

various, like it, it could be a wink and
a nod of like, Hey, this is the one, you

know, a variant of the one in the Netflix
shows, but slightly different or, you

know, wholesale it's the entire case.

Tony: And if we do, like in the comics, a
like a secret war, um, devil world thing

where everyone kind of conjoins like how
they would get people are theorizing,

how they would get the X-Men in there.

If they want to keep
doing old man Logan stuff.

Uh, in the comics, they pulled just
popular characters from their universities

and put them in the main timeline.

I mean, I feel like if they were
going to do that, that is SES seven of

Marvel is not famous for, but it's a

Jude: waiting.

No, you're right.

Because Marvel, Marvel is
good at that slow burn.

Al: Yeah.

And that kind of storyline, I mean,
that is a complete reboot, right?

Like that's one of those things
like, well, Hey, it's been 30 years.

Um, let's bring iron man back
or bill spring, Tony start back.

Right.

That kind of thing.

Cause that happens in the comics and
like that kind of thing is like, that's,

that's a, full-on like, all right.

We're, we're basically starting over.

We'll keep some of this stuff so
that the storyline still goes, but

you get to kind of start fresh.

And I don't know.

I mean, so far.

They haven't done any kind of real
rec Connie, uh, within the MCU.

Like they they've done a little
bit and you know, there there's

some stuff where they, they, uh,
clarify and that clarification,

um, just kind of adds to stuff.

Or maybe it does change things a little
bit, but, but not at all, like the,

the spirit is still there and this is
why I'm a little bullish on all the

multi-verse stuff that's coming in.

Because, because I, I
like the one-time light.

I don't like the, the alternate stuff.

It doesn't feel as real to me.

Jude: Okay.

I think, I think you're
the first I've heard.

Not really excited about that.

Al: Oh, well, uh, that's good.

I'm holding back.

Tony's heard me complaining many,
many, many times that in time for,

Jude: well, I mean, when
everybody I've talked to yeah.

Is excited about the multiverse.

So that's what I'm saying.

I think you're the first that, that I've
come across and haven't been excited about

the multiverse I was with you though.

Especially the way they took it,
like watching Loki in the beginning.

And just that whole, it's weird, like
the sacred one timeline, what they,

what it took to set up to get there.

I felt like it kind of diminished
everything we already did.

And so that was, that was a
struggle for me, you know?

So that, that was so I, I, I
understand where you're coming

Al: from.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, and I'm, I, you know, I, I do want
to say, I love everything within the MCU.

Uh, some things less than others,
but for the most part, you know,

even Loki, I love the show.

I feel like it left on, um,
a number of cliffhangers.

And I think that one kind of bothered
me with, as far as the TV show goes, but

yeah, I'm still keeping my mind open.

Uh, we'll see where things go.

This is, it's kind of the introductory
part, so we'll, we'll see how it ends up.

But, uh, but yeah, so far, um, I'm just
very bullish on that kind of stuff.

Trey: So.

I apologize cause I'm throwing this on
you on the spot, but y'all mentioned

how there aren't that many conflicts
between Marvel television and Marvel

studios off the top of y'all's head.

Do y'all know if some of the
bigger conflicts that do arise?

Um,

Tony: yes, definitely.

The last two seasons of Asia
shield context for agents of shield

at the end of the fifth season,
they thought it was in the show.

They have a beautiful ending.

In my opinion, like would
have been an amazing scenario.

And the finale ended with them talking
about a fan was his invasion of Wakanda.

So it was winding up with infinity war.

They ended like the last shots were

Al: before the snap.

Oh

Tony: wow.

Well, they get renewed
for two more things.

Uh, huh.

And there wasn't this nap.

Oh, they don't refer to it at all.

Um, well,

Al: I mean, in my mind there that th
those two seasons take place during the

snap and they just choose never to say
it, but there's, this goes back to that

whole separate studios and it's just, uh,
it's just way easier to, to not do that.

Yeah.

Trey: I mean, I'm assuming it's pretty
traumatic to live through the snap,

so maybe it was just repression on
the character's part to just never

bring up the snap within the show.

Al: Yeah.

I

Tony: feel like shield agents who are
to do a deal with superhero crisis.

I think they mentioned it.

So that's my biggest difficulty.

We love those shields as we call
them, but that would be the biggest

difficulties to bring in those characters,

Trey: which is so funny
because I think between.

Netflix and Marvel television.

They were the ones that had the
most ingrained hooks between.

But yeah, it's, it's, it's a little
sad to see that it's the one that

has the most complications of
getting back into the stories now.

Jude: Well, it's interesting
because season five of agents of

Cyril is the last season I saw.

Yeah.

So I ended up a good spot

Trey: for personally, for you.

It's still fit

Jude: for me.

It's fine.

Like I'm good.

Tony: And um, like I can make, we can make
it work because seasons five and season

seven rely heavily on time travel and they
actually go use quantum time travel in

the, I think the finale of season seven
series finale to go back to the presence.

I don't remember, they were like
1960s or something like that.

So we can say in like the multi-verse
time travel, like they did an end game

where the past doesn't affect the future.

However, Bruce

Trey: banner explained it.

The past becomes your

Jude: future.

Your present.

Right, whatever your present is
because you continually make choices.

The choice you just
make is now your future.

So even if you try to travel back to the
past, you are experiencing the present.

You always experienced the present
because you continue to make choices.

Trey: See, this is why if, if time
travel were real, I would be very

much a Scott Lang because my only
references would be to movies.

And that's how I would understand time.

Tony: I love talking about
the stories, but I completely

understand why Al hates them.

Trey: Well, you know, it's funny.

Yeah.

Now, when you were speaking on paper,
I'm right there with you, dude.

We talked about it whenever
the potentiality of a

multi-verse is on the horizon.

I mentioned.

Feeling like you can't have steaks with
a multi-verse because it's like, okay, if

something bad happens with this one, just
go to the next multi-verse and it's fine.

Like you lose that element to it.

But, and I've had similar feelings
with time travel because it also

gets really messy and it just feels
complicated storytelling wise.

But for whatever reason, I guess
this is the fan boy in me, Marvel

just won me over with it because
I ended up loving end game.

And I'm totally fine with where we
are with low-key at least so far.

But yeah, go ahead.

I was just all that to say you're
not alone Al I just did it.

The

Jude: mouse, the mouse as well.

I was going to say into the
spider verse, I think one of the

reasons why that works so well is.

The, the stakes, like all the
universities were at stake because of

kingpins machine and it wasn't just,
they're coming to help one universe.

And that, and to me, like you're
setting the stakes, that's going to

be the trick of, is there a universe
that is universe prime, so to speak,

you know, that like, if that goes
away, everything else goes away because

cause otherwise you do get into that.

Oh, I'll just jump to the next.

And we're all good.

Well, like I said, this is kind of what
the secret most, um, current run of

secret wars was a way to pull in, you
know, characters from other verses and

just to get them together in the comics.

And I don't know if that's
satisfying in the shows,

Al: you know, I guess it kinda
depends on, on how they, they

show it to us as the audience.

Right?

Like, you know, there, there can be some
of those things where the story like.

Like, yeah, maybe it's a little, uh, cheap
in that, that regard of like, oh, it was

all a different universe kind of thing,
but if they show it right, uh, and I fully

trust, uh, Marvel studios to be able to
do this, then it would work out well.

I mean, going with your example right
into the spider verse, like we really only

got the perspective of miles Morales and
he happened to get help from the spider

characters from different universes.

And not that it matters, right.

Because we only cared really
about miles Morales and the story

was all really self-contained.

It only happened to involve
a alternate universe.

It didn't like threaten
everyone and all of this stuff.

Uh, also, it, it didn't
give us a lot of details.

I think one of my complaints, a lot
of time with time travel and alternate

universes is the amount of details.

They're like, we'll, we'll get a
line here or there with some details.

And then later on, we'll
get something that kind of

contradicts that thing earlier.

And then that just, that's
where it really pulls me away.

Tony: Keep it vague.

And then you can say
everything is possible.

Jude: Yeah.

Hey, you know what, through low-key that
was one of my things I kept getting bogged

down in the mechanics, you know, like,
like it was, well, the prime example was

the nexus event or momentous, you know,
and it was just like, you've already

established, this is an apocalypse.

There can't be an ex-US event, you know?

And so to have a nexus event that didn't
change the fact that it was going to be

an apocalypse shouldn't have happened.

Like, you know, and so it's all like,
I, I kept getting bogged down into

those little, those things, the details.

Yeah.

Tony: This isn't what this
episode's about, but I can, I've

explained to Al multiple times
how that next event makes sense.

In the context of the show, if we

Jude: want to get into that.

Well, no, well, I'm going to say
this, like I think at the con I think

you're right in the context of the
show that that makes sense, but I kept

getting bogged down to the mechanics
to like, bring it back topic wise.

I think that's one of the difficulties
when you start talking about what's

Canon and how to bring things in, because
you get us who remember these little

things and you're like, wait a minute
in this season of this, this happened.

So, you know, why is this happening
here when you bring in this character?

Uh, you know, and so I, I think, I
think that's what makes that, that

idea difficult, you know, because
just the details there and the

things that us as fans remember.

Al: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, in the, you know,
bringing us back to star wars,

I I'm going to bring up a thing.

Tony has told me many times,
but I get the wording wrong.

So he's going to correct me now.

Who's

Trey: time

Al: traveling.

Uh, but no, um, you know, in, in star
wars they have a person whose job it is to

literally keep track of all of this stuff.

All of the details, things that are
set in by different characters, like

what are the facts that this character
established, you know, when did that

happen and, you know, in relation to
the timeline and that kind of stuff.

And as far as I know, that doesn't
really exist within, within the MCU.

Um, we, we've gotten a couple of
weird timing, things that have

happened, like just in the movies too.

Um, yeah.

Some of the timing with Spider-Man
far from home got really weird,

uh, with like the years and stuff.

But when we know that happened in
relation to the Avengers, uh, in that.

Yeah, his name's Leland.

Tony: She keeps her in the holler.

Crown.

Also, Marvel has a story.

I couldn't, you were right out, but
I couldn't go on without correcting.

You

Trey: need to keep the sacred
timeline of this podcast.

So thank you, Tony.

Oh, really?

Well, you know, I asked you all
about any of the conflicts between

Marvel television and Marvel studios.

I'm curious.

Now, do y'all have any moments
where they connected that is your

favorites, like little payoff moments,

Tony: um, to come to my mind first.

And always, it always goes, TV
shows reacting to the movies.

It's never gone with exception one
time and any other way, but, um, lady

SIF, guest, starring in agents of
shield, uh, especially the one with

her sister Lorelei, which was the
last episode before the fall of shield

and season one, I think was amazing.

Anytime the show, it happened only a few
times, but when the shield is interact

with, as guardians I think is great, but
more importantly, the one-time, it was

referenced in the movies in end game.

When we see Howard stark and his Butler
Jarvis played by the same actor who

was Jarvis in the agent Carter TV show.

And I had the same reaction
like I had in the roadblock.

It's like, oh my God, it's a guy.

Trey: You know, that moment stands
out to me so much because I've seen

agent Carter, but I wasn't as connected
to the Marvel television side.

But I remember sitting into the theater
and seeing Jarvis pop-up on the screen.

Like I was that, that movie already
had me in tears so much just

because I get so emotional and
movies, but that moment happened.

And it was just like a silent,
happy tear because like everybody

was getting a piece of what they
wanted in that farewell of a movie.

And it was just so cool to see
that they paid it off even as

little as a moment as it was.

Tony: Yeah.

And that's what I mean, it's just
like, we don't need a big scene with,

uh, Fitz and Simmons from agents
of shield having their actions.

No, just having them in the background
and that's literally good enough.

Jude: Yeah.

I I'm I'm the same way.

Like what would you think
about the Netflix shows?

That they did connect simple things
like the newspaper on the wall about the

Avengers event and, and those types of
things like that, that alone was exciting

like that that's all you needed, you know?

So it's, it's a shame that, that
didn't follow through because

clearly agents of shield season
wine, you mentioned lady surf.

You've already mentioned fury
showing up Maria Hill, the connection

to winter soldier like that.

They were clearly.

That the idea was those were connected.

I mean, that, I don't think they,
I don't think they fully thought

through Colson, but they were clearly,

Al: they had a, they had a whole
storyline for that to, to explain it.

But that was, and that
was an early storyline.

Uh, first season was rough to get through.

Trey: No, it's, it's so funny.

You mentioned that Jude, because
that first season is everybody's

milestone of like, just get to
the winter soldier connection.

Like that's all you need
to, and agents of shield.

And then from there it becomes, uh,
like legitimately good watching.

Really, really good.

But yeah.

I'm sorry I cut you off.

You were saying,

Al: oh no, no, no, you're fine.

I was just gonna, um, kind of expand a.

You know, you're, you're talking
about the, you know, the, the small

connections of things that are
mentioned in the, in the Netflix shows.

And, you know, we, it was kind of funny.

It's like a little running joke that,
you know, within a Netflix shows, they'll

reference the other characters in the
movies, but they don't say them by name.

They'll talk about the, you know,
the, uh, From space with a hammer.

Yep.

Yeah.

And so, you know, we, uh, but every so
often they will actually say the name.

I think, you know, once or twice
we've heard someone say Tony

stark, uh, that kind of stuff.

So we, we at least get
that, you know, the.

Towards, I guess, towards the end, uh,
some of the TV shows did have a little

bit of a crossover with themselves or with
their, the other shows within the MCU.

So like, you know, they were still
part of that separate studio and

these were really small things like,
uh, in cloak and dagger, there's

a reference to Luke cage there.

Like there's a, I think he shows up in
a newspaper or, or a video of someone's

looking at a phone, something like that.

Um, there was a little crossover
in the, uh, the Hulu show, uh, the

runaways between them and the cloak and
dagger characters, that kind of stuff.

And, you know, I, I don't expect
anything like that, you know, exactly

like we've been saying, right.

I don't, I don't need the
crossover, but you know, just, just

something where, where it matters.

You know, so one of the big twists
that happens, um, at the end of season,

two of agents of shield and, um, I,
I know we said spoilers zone, uh,

but, uh, you know, just giving you a
heads up in case you still haven't.

Uh, but you know, when one of
the big twists is that the coast.

Who at the time is running
field has kind of been running

this like secondary shield.

And that is the set of shield
people that he sends to help

during age of Ultron, their

Tony: whole job, their secret mission
was to refurbish the hella carrier.

That theory shows up in that little trunk.

Al: And just the acknowledgement
of that alone, like, like that,

that storyline fits so perfectly
within the movie and the TV show.

And we didn't say mentioned, didn't

Jude: say it didn't say also
within that mentioned the Avengers

in terms of finding structure,

Tony: they found structures, allies
and called Maria Hill to tell

the Avengers where struck her.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

And like you said, I just, in the
movie, you would have been, it would

have been nice to have that little nod.

Al: And I gotta say I'm a little surprised
that they didn't do something like that.

Cause you know, it's, it's like if
the movie mentions, Hey, here's this

TV show kind of surprised they didn't
do that to say, Hey people, you

should also watch this other TV show.

Yeah.

Tony: Well the problem behind the scenes
of the problem was the head of Marvel TV.

I pro mother and then
Kevin did not get along.

And they been pretty much fighting for
years about who has the rights to what?

And it was finally around civil war
where they completely split Disney was

just tired of their bickering and just
like, all right, your five-year in charge

of all things, Marvel and whatever.

She can give the, the shows
whenever they're not using them.

I promise her and his group.

So you could tell that they were going
on great in 2013 at the beginning of the

shield, but the further you get along,
the closer you get to civil war, you can

tell that the connections are getting more
and more strained until they're almost

no connections at all after civil war.

Trey: Yeah.

Yeah.

I was going to say art appropriately,

appropriately.

That relationship lasted until civil war,
which is a perfect way to put it to you.

Well, you know, it seems like we've got
a, a good sampling of things that connect

and don't connect, but that's going
to bring us to our last point, which

is simply, which are the shows do you
think is the easiest to bring in as is?

So if we can start with you this time,
Al, which one would you bring in.

Al: Oh boy.

So I had to think about this.

Uh, all right.

Um, so I have, I have two shows
in mind and the first one that I'm

going to say is really just a cheap,
so it's the Hellstrom TV show.

Oh, wow.

Which I thought was a.

A bad show.

Tony: I didn't know if you picked off
my scarf of disgust from the Hills.

Al: And if I remember correctly,
Tony, you still have not seen it.

This is like the one MCU
thing you have not watched.

One

Tony: thing I haven't finished on five
out of 10 since we're covering the show.

But so far it's the only like
even iron fist, which is known

as the worst Netflix show.

I have redeeming factors for that show.

There's nothing about
Hellstrom that I enjoy.

Trey: Yes.

When you scoffed at the beginning, I 100%
that you were talking about iron fist.

So to hear it was actually
about health service.

Tony: Well, and I had talked and I
knew he was going to bring this up.

Al: Well, yeah, he was

Trey: ready.

I am completely outside
the wheelhouse of this.

What?

Just as a brief overview,
what is Hellstrom?

Al: Oh, okay.

So, um, So just before all of the, um,
like the Marvel television stuff, like

ceased to exist, pretty much like the,
like, because now all, any TV shows are

all Disney plus and that kind of stuff.

They had a plan to create.

Um, I forgot what the actual term is, but
they were calling it like their, their

horror series or something like that.

Tony remember worlds of darkness.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And so, um, so that's where the
Hellstrom TV show came from.

There was going to be a ghost writer,
TV show, starring Gabriel Luna, who

was a ghost writer in agents of shield.

And, uh, I think there
was at least a third show.

I don't remember, but they
had a plan for this and all of

them were going to be on Hulu.

So Hellstrom, like they, they made
Hellstrom, they got, uh, the first

season, then all of the, uh, Marvel
television shows just stopped.

Like he snapped.

Yup, exactly.

Uh, so I mean, th this show itself is.

You know, I've already forgotten
the names of the characters.

You have this, this brother and sister
who are, uh, paranormal, essentially.

They, they both kind of have
some, some powers, uh, and

then they are investigating
like paranormal type of stuff.

Uh it's it's been a while
since I've watched it.

And it was, it was tough to get through.

It is not that good of a show.

Say that over and over the reason I
said this as a cheat is because of

this show really has absolutely no
connection to anything else in the MCU.

And it is just a blank slate.

They can say anything.

Um,

Tony: there's one Easter
egg connecting it.

They have rocks on the first
episode, but just in the background.

Al: So that's, that's it.

But like my real answer is, uh,
one of the shows that was on ABC.

Might've still been
ABC family at the time.

I don't remember, but either
way the cloak and dagger show, I

thought it was actually really good.

I really enjoyed that show.

Uh, and these are two characters.

They're teenagers.

They're like still growing, they
just got their powers and some of the

storylines do get pretty adult, you
know, for, for teenage storylines.

Um, you know, not nowhere near as
adult, as like Jessica Jones or, or

Daredevil those, those went alcohol,
but, uh, but you know, they have powers.

Uh, they mentioned a couple of things.

Uh, the, the dark dimension that
kind of pops up that pops up in a

handful of, of the TV shows, um,
they just kind of kept reusing them.

And considering, you know,
some of the magic that we're

starting to see in the movies.

I feel like bringing in these two kinds
of characters who have a little bit

of a connection already to magic type
of stuff, or at least other dimension

things like that's kind of an easy one
to, to bring them in, especially how

season two ends, uh, with, with those
two characters, just kind of leaving

home and going on their own adventures.

Um, I, I guess kind of like what Tony was
saying earlier about, you know, Daredevil

and Jessica Jones, you know, at the end,
their story is essentially complete or

they're they end in a spot where they
can just be brought in, I mean, same

thing with these two characters from

Jude: yeah.

Well, and cloak and dagger is our fan
favorites, like from the comics and stuff.

So, so that would also be a good reason to

Trey: bring them.

Yeah, that's a, that's
a really good answer.

I have not personally seen it, but
on like, I follow a lot of film

critics, TV critics, and then people
who are appreciating Marvel and I

constantly saw praise for that show.

So yeah, that, that seems like a really
good fit to just bring in, especially

framing it the way you did about it.

Being a complete story
and ready to be plugged.

Al: Yeah.

And just kinda like throwing something
out there about the show, like it's, you

know, it's, it's teen stuff, teen drama.

That's, that's pretty heavy in the
show, which I normally do not like

at all, and it's still pulled me in.

So just kind of throw that out there.

That's awesome.

Trey: So what about you, Tony?

Um,

Tony: well, I've got kind of
a cheat, not, not Hellstrom,

not yet.

It would ever make any impact on
anything, but like agent Carter can

be pooled fully formed into the MCU,
especially since it ended in 1947.

Even considering that cap goes
back in end game in the script, it

says he went back to 1954, so she
aged and same amount of he did.

Um, so there's no reason why all those
events didn't happen, but that would,

I think they no impact in the water.

So, um, in my mind, yes,
that's the only one.

That's a hundred percent.

Um,

Trey: and if I'm not mistaken, I
think the writers of infinity war

and end game worked on agent Carter.

So it feels like such a
nice leap between those two.

Tony: I think that's why also they
had the pool to get, um, uh, the actor

who played Jarvis into the movie.

But, uh, as much as I like my defenders
or too many conflicts to bring them out

fully forms, unless you just plucked
them in like molded their style.

Um, but yeah, it's, I've got to
go agree with Al is, um, Coke and

dagger is probably the best one
because it ended before the snap and

it takes place outside of New York.

It takes place in new Orleans.

Oh, wow.

Um, so you don't have to worry about that.

Um, also easy to take in would
probably be runaways, but I have real

conflicting feelings about runaways.

Like personally, I would not bring
that version into it because runaways

is my favorite Marvel comic book.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

And I, yeah, it was the first one that
came out when I was like 14 or 15.

It started coming out.

It's the first one I ever collected
issue by issue and they did not

do it justice in my opinion.

So I would really just selfishly
I'd want to see Marvel do

another chance on that one.

Do another pass on that.

Jude: No, that makes,
that makes a lot of sense.

When you say, when you have a, that,
that connection to the source material,

it makes sense that you'd want to it.

Wasn't done right.

Al: Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the things that I, I say pretty
regularly about like some of this stuff

is, you know, we're, we're getting
to the point now with the MCU where a

lot of the fans who know the comics,
like you have a lot of people who

want to see, you know, a certain thing
happened, but you know, they, they

don't always enforce that to happen.

Right.

Like, um, we, you know, the example
that I'm always bringing up is, uh,

captain Marvel, where, you know, w
we know that the scrolls are, oh,

they're evil, shape-shifting people,
but we get this complete curve ball

that, oh, no, the scrolls in this
case are essentially the good guys.

Right.

Or at least the ones that we see,
they're like the refugee character.

Jude: Yeah.

So, yeah.

What I'm curious about is would you
consider, because in my mind, when I,

when I thought of this question, part
of me thought, well, could I pull in say

Daredevil, if I ignored season three,
Like could that, you know, which, which

in my head brought in Punisher and
like, yeah, yeah, no, but that's, I'm

saying if we ignored season three and
brought in Daredevil after season two to

the MCU, do you think that would work?

Tony: I think it would considering
where he was at the end of season two,

where he has given up being Daredevil,
but him like re re-evaluating, like

the need for Daredevil would be a
great, like hero's journey for a first

movie or first Disney plus series.

Yeah.

It was before, right before the
defenders crossover, which like, if

we're not real people, everyone from the
Netflix shows that'd be perfect because

then we could recast say Danny Rand.

Jude: Yeah.

And the thing is, it's a weird
question for me, because season three

is my favorite of the Daredevil run.

But just thinking about like,
what could I pull in seamlessly?

You know, God, that gets
you two good stories there.

Yeah, the Punisher, but even
still the Punisher was while

his, his own series were violent.

You get Punisher.

I mean, he's violent in season
two, but I don't know if season two

Daredevil Punisher violence was the
same as his own season violence.

Tony: That is true.

He

Al: ramped it up.

Tony: Ken a much more straightforward
journey of people killing

people who deserved it in the
first one or in Daredevil.

And then I think, I don't know.

It's been a while since
I've seen the Punisher.

It's not, he's not my favorite character
and the offenders, the rest of defenders

are all fresh in my mind because ally
just recorded all the defenders episodes,

rewinding those, the first stuff
that comes out next week, or probably

on Monday the same day, this stuff.

So drops.

Al: Oh, fantastic

Jude: tenders Kelly.

For that, I loved the defenders.

I know, I know there's people
that didn't I really enjoyed it.

Tony: Yeah.

I, and then I like if we're being
the Netflix and we keep talking about

Netflix people, cause it's on top
of my head, but like people want to,

don't like Finn Jones is casting as
Danny Rand and I understand that, but

he bounces off the other defenders,
so well, so it's like, if you go.

I don't think it would be right to
bring in Mike Colter, Kristen Ritter,

and, uh, the guy, Charlie, Charlie Cox.

Um, I feel bad bringing those three
perfect casting, not bringing in the Finn

Jones, even like for heroes or higher type

Trey: show.

Al: Yeah, that's interesting.

Cause I kept thinking that like Finn
Jones, I thought he was a perfectly good

actor that he just like the character
he was playing or like the, the way

that that character was played for the
show was just, I didn't like that style.

Like the, you know, the it's a very, um,
man boy type of character or childish

is probably a better description.

I don't know why I said, man,

Trey: I'm glad we got to
record it for the first time.

But uh, no, like I, I didn't
see iron fist, but I remember

being on the outskirts of it.

Like, cause they've got a second season,
there was a lot of talks that it was

almost close to redeeming itself.

And that was part of the shame of
like not getting a next season.

So I see, I see you the points
of like the actor being fine.

It was just the handling of the show.

Tony: Um, I have a huge soft spot for
season two of iron fist because, uh,

that the year, the summer previous to
that, I went to San Diego comic con 2018.

Yeah.

Marvel studios wasn't there.

It was very depressing,

Jude: but that's awesome.

I did go.

Tony: Iron fist panel and
the cook and Decker panel.

So I have a huge soft spot for it.

Yeah.

Al: Yeah.

And, and, you know, just to kind
of want to add, you know, back to

the question about, you know, what,
if we bring in a character from,

you know, only, partly through the,
the series that we've already seen.

Uh, I feel like that just gets hard
to describe to people like w when you

go that route now, It's just harder
to keep track of, like, imagine, you

know, talking to your friends who don't
understand or don't really, you know,

they don't follow the stuff like we do.

Um, so like, oh, Hey, those old
X-Men movies from 20 years ago,

are they, are they part of the MCU?

Oh no, they don't it's anything
from this year and oh, okay.

And then all of a sudden, oh, Hey,
there's this guy, uh, Daredevil.

He had some, uh, seasons on Netflix.

Cool.

I'll go watch them by the way.

We don't watch the third season
because that one doesn't first.

And then he also showed up in this
other one defenders don't so just,

just season one and two, and then they
character there, the Punisher ignore him.

He doesn't exist.

So I feel like that just

Tony: gets difficult.

I yeah.

I'm but Disney plus has been able
to kind of mitigate that because

they have, uh, Marvel legends.

Now just show them that 10, 8, 10
minute video, and then jump into the new

Daredevil show on Disney plus or whatever.

Trey: Yeah.

Those Marvel legend episodes have
become such a smart move on Marvel's

part because it is such an easy,
like dip in dip out like under

10 minutes, I think, per episode.

And you kind of get all you need, uh,
and that one viewing at least to have

a functional knowledge of whatever
the characters are gonna appear in.

But I D I do want to say circling back
a little bit, Al you were talking about

the frustration of like, is this part
of this or this part of that just don't

watch this season so on and so forth.

I like there's nothing definite
yet, but there are rumblings of

the Sony villain verse that is
maybe potentially linking up.

I'm bracing myself for the frustration
that that's about to bring in about

what is or isn't part of the story.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah.

Tony: That's why at the top of
this episode, the icons that

we cover everything that was
intended to be in the model.

So if you bring in, like, if the
rumors are true and they bring in.

Uh, characters from Sam Raimi.

Spider-Man the amazing Spider-Man movies.

We're not going to go back and
cover all the Spider-Man movies

or we're not going to cover.

I mean, we're not going to cover
venom unless it's for a joke

episode on winners and love that

Trey: they only cover the movies that
doesn't make Kevin side-eye when

someone says it's part of their care.

Jude: Well, there was that famous for you
between Kevin and Amy Pascal when she's

like, oh, it's going to be adjacent.

And Kevin was like, what?

Trey: You were arrested development

Al: theme song.

Tony: Well,

Al: I think that'll

Trey: wrap it up for the
bulk of the episode there.

I want to say thank you.

This has been a very enlightening
conversation about the Marvel television

and Netflix side of the Marvel universe.

Al: But yeah.

Tony: Thanks for having us.

Yeah.

I mean, any chance to talk about this?

The super nitty-gritty nerdy stuff
about the characters that only like

a handful of people care about.

Trey: Speaking of getting nitty-gritty and
nerdy, we do have what if premiering this

week, when this episode drops August 11th,
so do whatever what's everybody expecting?

What are you most excited for on
this upcoming Disney plus show?

And if we can start with you,
Tony, what are you excited about?

Tony: Well, first of
all, it's my birthday.

So

Al: I'd like to thank Marvel for,

Tony: for giving me that.

Um,

yeah, it was, um, August is usually
a dead zone for all superior stuff.

So.

One of my favorite lesser known comics
is the exiles, which is about a bunch of

heroes from alternate universe is teaming
up and like protecting universities.

That's what I hope to see in this.

There's been the rumors of it, of like
the version of multi-verse Avengers

or the exiles, like plucking cool
characters out of their multiverse

and having star wars and captain
Carter and whoever else teaming up.

Maybe Kang, maybe someone else,
but I think that'd be really cool.

I'm hoping to see that.

Trey: Yeah.

That's cool.

What about you Al?

Al: Yeah.

Uh, you know, to be honest, I am very
much looking forward to not having any

idea what's going on with all these shows
that, you know, the Disney plus shows

come out, uh, the movies come out and,
you know, you get all that, that lead up.

You're like, okay, you know,
this, uh, what, what, what do

you expect is gonna happen?

And you just make, start
making assumptions.

And I'm, I'm really looking forward to
the fact that because there are so many,

you know, different characters and so
many shows like the trailers that have

come out have been so light on the actual
details that I just can't even get into

my own head for, for the show, like.

Know, back when Juan
division first came out.

I kind of had some of that, but,
you know, with trailers, all that,

it's still so easy to just start
making assumptions and we all did it.

Yeah.

I don't know if I've
made any for this show.

You know, I saw a headline saying that
apparently this is going to be MCU cannon.

I have no idea if that's true or not.

I, you know, keep getting
things pointed at me.

They're like, oh, this is
a rumor that's going on.

And I try very hard to just ignore rumors
because there are so many, so many rumors.

Oh yeah.

But yeah, I'm really just looking forward
to just sitting down and watching it

without going into the over analyzing
that we do as people who spend our

free time talking to other people
about this stuff in a recorded fashion.

Trey: I gotta say, I really
liked that answer because in

this like constantly connected.

Internet that we live in it's it is
like a privilege to be able to go into

a show without knowing as much as we do.

And that's such a great point to
bring up about the, what if, because

we really don't know that much.

So I like that one.

Al: What about YouTube?

Jude: I was going to
say, I feel the same way.

Like I have some glimpses of
like the challah in the Ravagers,

you know, things like that, but.

I'm I'm having a hard time piecing
it together because what F right?

Like in this alternative
universe, what if this happens?

What if that happens?

And there's so many different things you
can tweak and change that I don't know

what you expect in terms of what they
decided to tweak and change, you know?

And I hadn't watched any trailers
that, because I think they've released

some episode specific trailers.

Now, I haven't seen any of those trailers.

Only the big broad ones, just
to kind of introduce the idea.

Yeah.

So I'm, I'm having a hard time,
like, and not in a, not in a bad way.

Right.

And just like putting it together.

So it is exciting too, in a weird way.

I think that it levels that elevates
my expectations of like, oh, I

I'm, I'm expecting to be blown
away by what they're going to do.

You know?

So I don't know if that's a good
thing for the show, but I know

that that is happening for me.

Trey: I know for me, And I feel like this
is in direct contrast of the two great

points that you all brought out about the
lack of expectations, but flying in the

face of reason, I am expecting this to be
a lot closer to the MCU Canon than I think

people are expecting just based off my,
this is my own personal speculation and

feeling, but I'm going out on that wire.

I don't think it's a coincidence that
it's happening right after low-key.

And so I, I don't know.

I have this expectation of feeling
like by the end of this, we're going

to be like, oh, these, these aren't
just like whatevs, but glimpses into

what could be and maybe moving forward.

Tony: Yeah, I totally agree.

I'm just hoping for the episode where
it's just an animated version of

the pilot and shield and make that

Jude: well, it makes you wonder, like, you
know, when, when quake shows up in episode

one, you know, we know all bets are off

Al: and y'all can

Trey: point back to this episode
and say y'all called it Sarah.

That's fantastic.

Al: Yeah.

Tony: That's the thing you
make every possible prediction.

One of them will be right.

Trey: Okay.

Well, Tony and Al, I got to say
this has been an absolute blast.

Thank you two so much
for coming on to this.

Al: Oh, yeah.

No, thank you for having us.

We're very excited to be here.

Um, it's a good show.

So I'm looking forward to hearing
my voice on something else again.

Awesome.

Trey: Well, if you want to hear
both of their voice, you can find

their podcast MCU rewind on it.

Most podcast catchers, or if you go
to MC rewind.com, you can find a lot

of information on their shows there,
or you can follow them on Twitter, MCU

underscore, rewind really great people.

You should definitely be
subscribed and following to them.

But of course, if you have any questions
or comments about this episode, you can

always reach us at MC you need to know on
Twitter and Instagram, or if you'd like

to join our discord, there's a link to
the discord in the show notes as well.

Once you get

to

Al: discord,

Jude: make sure you go to the role
of sign, click on the eye emoji.

So you can have access to all
the spoiler channels, be sure to

follow or subscribe, whichever your
podcast catcher of choice does.

And the best thing you can do
for us is share with a friend.

Trey: Yeah.

We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for
the use of our theme song, which is

his rendition of the Avengers theme.

You can find more of his work on his
SoundCloud, which is linked in the show.

All right, that's going to do it.

Thank you so much for
listening out Tony and June.

Thank you so much

Al: for doing this.

Thank

Jude: you tray.

Thank you,

Al: Tony.

Thanks

Trey: for having us.

We'll see you all next

Tony: week.

Jude: Okay.

See, I was going to jump in and then
I kept waiting for trader Joe's.

I was like, wait,

Trey: we were doing so good
for this whole episode too.

It's always the slight little
noises where I go and it's like,

wait, is he about to do it?

And we just kind of psych ourselves out.

Does that ever happen to you too?

And you'll show,

Al: oh no, we just talk over it.

Tony: That's our biggest problem
is we'll talk over each other.

Trey: So after four years,
it's just like, yeah, screw

Jude: it.

Well, yeah,

Tony: we've also, we've been friends
since we were 10 years old, so

Al: yeah,

Trey: that's fantastic.