The Meta Episode 4

No, it's not a mistake. It's our podcasting self care episode!

Trey: All right.

We should be good.

You want to get sinked up?

Jude: Yeah.

Trey: Okay.

You ready?


Jude: 2,

Trey: 3.


Why so long

Jude: you waited a while.

So I'm going to wait awhile.

I didn't wait as long as you did.

Trey: Yeah, you did.

You know what?

My favorite thing about this is what
we have this argument every time.

We both know it's because we're
remote, but we still pretend the

other person did it on purpose.

I it's never been more evident than
the, I guess we were on opposite

ends on as of this recording, the
last episode for MC you need to know.

I will never stop thinking about lead
saying like, oh, I love when you two

argue, because it's like, it's like
two people politely disagreeing in the

backseat while you're on a road trip.

And then it's like, you watch us
devolve as this goes on, wherever

you just get more and more aggressive

Metta Metta episode.


This might be the most meadow we are we've
ever done because we've got no outline.

We haven't queued the theme song yet.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if like we
get halfway through the episode and

that's when we queued the theme song?

Jude: Sure.

Well, I mean, we have to run
the theme song at some point.

Trey: Oh, of course.

But I love the idea of like
getting all the way to the end.

Oh crap.

The theme song, play it.

And then like talk for five more minutes.

Like, all right.

We'd like to thank Nick Sandy
and this thing that's so funny.

Jude: That would be funny.

Oh man.

Trey: So I've already, like, I w we were
texting with Tara and we were talking

about podcasting rituals, and I said,
the last time I actually had a drink

drink, we got the meta episode three.

So keeping in spirits with that,
I'm drinking, uh, on this one.

I'm limiting.

I'm limiting myself to just one,
because I don't know if you picked up

on it, but I was editing that episode
and it was so funny to me that if it

were up to me, we still would be in
the bed of episode three, because you

took the reins and you were like, it's
like getting us into the next topic

and finally getting us to the answer.

That's so

Jude: funny.

I'm gonna have to go back
and listen to that then.

Oh, there's a definitive point.


I have just water today.

Uh huh.



I haven't been sleeping well.

Um, so part of it is the pod mascot keeps
waking me up in the middle of the night.

He will be in puppy prison tonight.


Trey: a very extreme way.

Jude: I mean the kennel, uh, puppy prison.

Well, he normally doesn't go to
the Kindle really, unless it's

like, okay, you got to go away.

And then, so we call it.

That's adorable.

Yeah, it is.

Um, Francis might not
feel that way, but I would

Trey: like to sleep.

Hey, that's a very reasonable request.

Look, if they get to get your
sandwich, you get to sleep.

That's only

Jude: fair.

That's right.

I almost got pushed out of the
bed last night because of the.


He sleeps in our bed.

It's like a hundred pound dog
that just sleeps in our bed.

It sucks.

Trey: I think you're to
end up in puppy prison.

See, this is why I like,

Jude: yeah.

Trey: We had the guests that we had on TJ.

Who's an incredibly skilled artists in
so many different forms, but specifically

in this instance, like actual like
drawings, I wish that I could draw

because I would love to be able to just
do like a comic of you or the puppy.


Jude: did you see recently,
like the paintings he did on.


Trey: I want to say yes, I'm not
recalling to mind, but I mean, he's

always posting so many cool things.


Jude: yeah.

Go back and check it out.

And he made, I, I texted him.

I was like, dude, could
you make a baseball bat?

He's like, well, I can't because I don't
have a big enough, uh, lave wherever

he goes, but I can make a mini one.

And so he made a mini bat for me.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it was so cool.


Trey: Yeah.

If I don't, I still don't know if this
is part of the episode or not, but if it

is we'll make, screw it, even if it's not
the episode, we'll link it in the show.

Jude: Yeah.

What went into the show notes?

So, yeah, we got to have TJ back
on because he had some really

interesting insights to what
if that I hadn't thought about?

Trey: Well, you know,
it's funny, you said.

Uh, I th this will be the episode if,
unless things drastically changed,

this will be the episode that comes
out the week after the what if finale?

Uh, well, maybe the other week, because
we were always a week behind, but we've

already decided that we're not doing
a wrap-up episode, just because as

much as we've been struggling with the
episode, I think doing one more episode

just feels like not the right call,
but I would love to dig into that with.

Uh, especially if you can find a way to
do it where it's not like specifically

just what if, but just kind of tapping
into his insights on a broader scale

of MCU, which incorporates that.

What if, yeah.

Jude: Yeah.

I'll talk to him because
I know he'll be in.



Oh, so yeah, we're recording.

This is the same day that.

I guess what episode eight drop,
which I haven't watched yet,

Trey: you know, I was, so I was hoping
you would, because I was in love

with the idea of us both seeing the
episode, but not talking about it, but

recording on the day that it came, it

felt like the most us thing
since we started podcasting.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, my oldest, uh, does
youth bowling and, and got to.

Did a free bowling tonight?

Um, basically, so, so they
don't have to go on Saturday.

And, and so that's where I was, and
I had appointments this morning.

And so like, I was late to
work, which was in-service.

That was.

Um, thoroughly fruitful.

Um, and so, yeah, so like I haven't
had a chance to listen to yet.


Trey: Well, I'll be very curious.

Are you going to watch it tonight?

Are you going to do it tomorrow?

No, I'll watch it tonight, man.

I feel like in this weird space where
we're both planning the episode and

also doing the meta episode, but
that's brand, but to kind of bring

it back into something that would be
valuable for the people listening.

It's been weird.

I think this hasn't yeah, this change
happened between the meta episodes,

the last, the third one, and this one.

It's been weird having to adapt to
the Disney plus shows being out on

Wednesday rather than Friday, which was
the case when we did this last time,

Jude: I've appreciated
though, the extra time,

Trey: I appreciate the time as far as
I appreciate the time, as far as the

production of making the episode goes.

But as far as like marketing a podcast, it
feels like we're always playing from home.

And, uh, actually I was talking
about, I was talking to Tara about

this whenever we did our Shung
Kai, uh, review the recording.

We were just talking about
social media in general.

And I told her one of the weirdest
things is, you know, the new

episode comes out Wednesday.

Our podcast episode comes out Monday.

That gives us two days to promote before
that next Wednesday, where everybody's

already looking at the next thing.

And I'm in a I'm between a rock and
a hard place where I don't want to.

Change what we do
because the time is nice.

I feel like it does give us a lot more
freedom to really dig into an episode.

But it's, it's, I dunno, it's been
interesting as, as I've been trying

to crack how to promote these
episodes once they actually go out.


Jude: Well, I mean, I think two
things first, I get it that,

you know, Kevin foggy superfan.

Can't always accommodate us and has
to do its best for Marvel and Disney.

And so moving it from Friday to Wednesday,

Trey: that's the
compromise we have to make.

Jude: Yeah.

Um, I think, you know, we've made
that compromise, I think on his end,

w I, I would appreciate it if you'd
just like name drop us every once

Trey: in a while, you know,
recognition goes along.

It does, uh, we, we say
his name almost every week.

Jude: It's right.

Oh, help us out.

Help us out, Kevin.

Oh, we're on a Kevin name basis now.

Well, okay.

See, that's the thing.

So I remember when I worked at a
TV station years ago and I was in,

you know, did make, made the local
commercials, working with promotions

and stuff and, and friend, the still
friend, I haven't talked to him in years.

So the creative director, we would,
we would critique commercials.


Cause that's part of what we did.

We promoted the station and made, uh,
local commercials and there was a whole

campaign for, um, I think it was Levi's.


And you would see a billboard that would
be like Calvin wears them and a Levi's

logo, which was so fantastic because
you didn't mention Calvin Klein and you

didn't have to, you just had the name.


And, and everybody thinks of that.

And so that's why it's like having a
mug with a, like a logo on one side and

just Kevin listens on the other side.

Yeah, they're going to associate him.

See, you need to know

which Kevin, let me
could be my dad for all.

Like, you know, like your number one fan,

Trey: you can't all the Kevin's.

Can't see, what's come at.

Jude: You know, and, and, and if
they did, we'd just be like, no,

no, no, no, we're rolling names out.

It's a little bit at a time we
don't have the budget of Coke.

We can't put just random names
and a whole bunch of names.

And just the random name generators came
with Kevin first who knew, you know, like.


Trey: right.

You you've convinced me where
you need to roll out murder ASAP.

Kevin listens is such a great,

Jude: I know right

Trey: now, I want to know if we
have any actual, actual Kevin's

one as opposed to fake Kevin's, but
I wouldn't know if there are any

Kevin's that listened to this podcast.

And if that would be
appropriate for just that

Jude: I know somewhere out there among the
listeners, there's a Kevin says like, And

by that I drink coffee out of that mug.


Trey: are all Kevin on this

Jude: day.

Well, you know what?

And watch like much.

There's just gonna be like one.

Kevin listener that doesn't drink coffee.

You know, that also

Trey: feels on brand.

Jude: Oh yeah.

Trey: All right.

I'm gonna go ahead and
get this out of the way.

Cause it's like, it is messing with me
as somebody who is adheres to structures.

Whenever we do a.




Jude: Nice.


Trey: alright.

We're back.

Should I do the hello or do we

Jude: just keep rolling?

Hello and welcome back to another episode
of MC you need to know a podcast dedicated

to the Marvel cinematic universe.

Everything you need to know.

I'm Jude.

Trey: I'm Trey.

How are you doing, dude?

Jude: Well, I'm excited tray,

Trey: you know, we're joking, but
at the time of this recording,

it's coming up where you're going
to, you're going to be doing that.

Jude: Yeah.


You're going to get to take
some well-deserved times off.

Um, and, and I'm excited because I'm
unfortunately, Um, from the sense

of we've had tremendous support and
your willingness to do this, um, I've

missed episodes and, and unfortunately
I've had to miss episodes, uh,

unfortunately being the circumstances.

Um, but it is neat to be on
that side of it to listen.

And it's like, oh, I have no
idea what it's going to be.

What's going to be said.

So I'm really excited for
you to have that experience.

Um, You know what I'm, I'm
starting to try to line up.

I got, I got one already on the line.

Fantastic to replace you.

So yeah.

Wait, wait, did I say, hold on.

I mean to sit in your chair,

Trey: well, you, uh,
you heard it here first.

I'm getting you served.

Jude: Yeah.


Trey: You had to find out this way.

Oh man.

Oh, but no, I, you, you hit the nail
on the head, like it's the closest

I've come to that experience of like,
Participating in an episode was the

one where friend Daniel and leech did
the, the, what if they hosted the show.

And that was so much fun.

And, you know, I sat here in this
exact same spot, but I was muted and

listen to them, but it's like, I'm
so curious to see what it would be

like, where I have no idea what's
going on and it'll, it'll be fun.

Purely an audience, um, um, high
school and I, you know what, I don't

even know if I w unless you need me
to help with something, I don't even

want to know what you got planned.

Like, I want to be completely surprised.

Jude: Yeah.


Hey, just to whatever I want

Trey: taking over tray part one.

Why are the truck mattered?

Part one in part two, right?

Jude: Oh, that's so awesome.


So you sent me that text about the truck,
about like hoping a fun co pop scene.

I started running through my head of
the people on Facebook that I follow

that does custom pops and wondering
is like, can I just have one made

and sent to tray for Christmas?

Trey: You know, that's fantastic because
nothing to the level of what you're

talking about, it's nothing custom,
but I've gotten two ideas for what I

would like to get you for Christmas.

One of them, I think.

Genuinely cool.

The other one is the devil
horns coming out of my head.

I'm trying to see what's right direction.

I want to go.

Jude: That's funny.

Oh, that's funny.

Maybe I'll do both.

I had a question.


One of the things I was thinking about,
you know, and it matters stick with,

with Metta, um, with what we've done so
far and granted, you know, we've already

laid out when we're recording this.

If I'm taking and I think
it's appropriate to do so.

The Disney plus shows as
part of the new phase, right?

This has been an exciting phase.

I'd agree.


It's been a really good phase and
I think we would have to go back

at the, at some point in revise.

What was the best phase where we did that?


Trey: yeah.

I think I remember my
answer was phase three.


What was yours?

Did you pick phase three to,

Jude: I either did three or two.

I can't remember.

I'd have to go look back.

That would be

Trey: tough.

Yeah, because just like speaking broad.

I think phase four, the highs
have been on par with phase three,

but the lows have been lower than
anything in any phase, in my opinion.


Jude: yeah, I.

If party Thor was a low,

Trey: is that the lowest for

Jude: you?

Well, I'm just saying like, like if
that's, if the, what if is included then?

Yeah, I have a hundred percent
agree with that statement.

Trey: Yeah.

Jude: But like the, like the lows of
the other three series, I don't think

equal the lows of, uh, of the phase one.

Does that make sense?

Trey: I would say, cause the, the,
the two, obviously what if like,

even though I think I might well
know, I don't even want to say that.

Cause it's, it's so weird.

What if has been such
a weird show to cover?

Because week to week we're all such polar
opposites, but the first place I was like,

what if for sure that has been a real
low, at least for me personally, the next

place that I reached for was there are
aspects of thought going in the winter

soldier that I just did not like I would
put that on par with stuff like RMS.

But I wouldn't, I wouldn't the low, low,
when I'm saying that I'm speaking of

what if, cause like I was thinking about
that, cause I, there was a tweet that

was put out by, um, some pop culture,
Twitter account where it was like all

the entries of phase four this year.

And it said, uh, you know what,
what's been your personal favorite.

And I ranked them and the bottom
two was what it me, I'm sorry.

The bottom two was Falcon
in the winter soldier.

And then what if, and I was
thinking about it, like despite

the ways that I feel there's a.

You a huge valley between
Falcon to the winter soldier.

And what if, because there are still
aspects I like of that, but yeah.

So it's been interesting.

I it's, I'm glad you brought up
that point of maybe re-evaluating

cause uh, I never thought about
returning to topics like that.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, I mean it, just to think about
what's to come eat turtles, Dr.

Strange Spider-Man Hawkeye, Hawkeye.

Uh, yeah.

It's it's going to be, it's going
to be worth going back to on

Trey: that one.


I it's worse.

We're facing down the longest
stretch of weeks that we've

had since Wanda vision started.

If I'm not mistaken because where we've
got, I think we said seven weeks between

the end of what if and the beginning
of Hawkeye, it feels a weird to be.

At this point where we had to come
up with topics for that many weeks.

Cause it's, it's been
kind of like routine.

We, you don't really even
have to think about it.

You're just like, all right,
new episode, let's review it.

Let's put it out.


Jude: Yeah.

Well, and it's interesting cause we
we've talked, we did it, we did a shonky

episode and a black widow episode.

Uh, now one with Tara, but
we never really, we didn't

do any kind of deep dive.

I mean, part of that was because
it, when it came out, um, you know,

we wanted your initial reactions.

Uh, waiting till, you know, not everybody
got the early access on black widow

and that should be coming super soon.



I just don't know exactly
what date I want to say

Trey: the fourth,

Jude: October 4th.


So that would be what, Monday.




You know, and I must confess I
didn't buy the early access to

Trey: black widow, which is
so funny because you were

championing putting it on Disney

Jude: plus I know, but what's what's, you
know what, well, you know, what prevented

me from doing that honestly, was when I
saw how intense it was for Marvel, when

I saw how intense it was and my youngest.

You know, the, the fourth grader, that
was the one that was like, really, like,

I want to see this, I want to see this.

And like, I'm not in a rush
to show you this movie.


You know?

And so that actually is what
tapped the brakes for me on, uh,

I'm getting the early access.

Now I did get to see that twice in the
theater because my dad and I went to

go to a movie, um, And we were looking
at what was out and there was only two

movies that I really, I thought it was
worth going to see in one boss, black.

Trey: Uh, do you have you and your
dad watching bus maybe to get there?


Jude: amazing.

I'm sitting there with my wife in two
of my three kids watching boss, baby.

The oldest was off into summer
camp and like, like, did they.


They, they really took Rocky
horror picture show and

repurposed it for the scene.

Like what's going on here?

Like these kids don't get
that reference anyways.

Um, that's another podcast and I'm
sitting there like Tara let's do the time

warp, you know, and anyways, um, But no.

So like, uh, it was still
water that Matt Damon movie.

Oh yeah.

And I just, I wasn't mentally in a place
where I felt like I should go watch

that because when I heard about it, so
it was just like, I like black widow.

Let's just go see it again.


My dad's an interesting test case.

Cause like one of the things he was
frustrated about with black widow, when

we went to go see, it was like, cause he
had already saw it once before as well.

Was he felt like there was
issues that were unresolved.

And he was annoyed by that, but
what he didn't put together was

where it was within the timeline.

I was like, no, he's like, like
this is when it takes place

and right before infinity war.

And, and so it had been
resolved and we'd seen it and he

didn't, he didn't realize that.

And I, and it made me
wonder how many people.

I didn't put that together
that are the casual MCU fan.

Like he seen them all, he goes and
sees them at the movies he wants to,

you know, but he's not listening.

Well, I say that he's not listening
to our podcast, but like, like, I

mean, I know he's downloaded and
listened, but it's not like it's

cause it's me, you know what I mean?

Trey: I'm kidding.

Go ahead.

Jude: Honestly, it could
be honestly, it could be.

We'll see.

Uh, see, I can say that,
cause I don't think he's going

to listen to this episode.


he's on vacation.

He's out.

He's enjoying himself.

This doesn't

Trey: come out when he's on vacation.

Jude: No, he's taking a long vacation.

I think he might still be gone.

It's a, it's a, it's like a
cross country trip at an RV.

He's well-deserved it's well-deserved too.

So, um, but no, like in all seriousness,
Like, he's not searching out these

podcasts, you know what I mean?

Like if it wasn't for us
doing one, he would have never

looked for an MCU podcast.


So he's like enjoys it, but he
doesn't get into the minutiae and

all and all that kind of stuff.

So, so it made me wonder how many
people who even think of themselves

as an MCU fan, but not to the
degree that, that separation, um,

Kind of impacted what they thought,

Trey: but, you know, I'm, I'm perpetually
thinking about what leach said.

I think it was when we were talking about
what if not, when she did the review

episode with us, but we were talking
about it coming and she was like, I

think general audiences just don't care.

Like we were talking, we were talking
about like some minutia about a

multi-verse and she was like, I think
most people are like, okay, cool.

Let's just go.

And so, yeah, it is
interesting to see where.

People thought, like, even if they
have seen all of them where they fall

into the deep dive, because there
were people who were in the, uh, the

Marvel studio, sub Reddit, like a
forum dedicated to the MCU and I'll see

comments like, oh, this takes place in
between, uh, civil war and infinity war.

And I'm like, yeah, like, how did you.

Jude: I guess I'm just admitting that yes,
the MCU fandom is a bubble that I live in

Trey: we're nerds.

Jude: And I, I liked, I
liked, I liked that bubble.

I do

Trey: like, have you ever
stopped and thought about.

On in the internet, there is over a
hundred hours of us talking about me.


Jude: I know, right.

If you would.


While if you would've told me, if you
would've told me that at some point.

Like high school Jude with
dial up unlike prodigy or AOL.

You know that one day there's
going to be over a hundred hours

of you talking about something.

You enjoy that other people listen to.

I would've thought you were great.

Trey: I would have, and that's
not even like, like step back,

even further, like even us like
getting together and doing this.

Cause we've never, we hadn't
done anything like this before.

And so it's just like, once you start
to peel back the layers of it, it's

like it's wild to stop and think
what we've done in a year and a half.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, wait, I wrote once when you tried
to have your movie or if you page,

I wrote once or twice for your page.

Trey: That's right.


I remember that.

So maybe, maybe not, maybe I'm being
a little too, too harsh on that.


Jude: but no, I mean, I mean, but beyond.

You're right.

Trey: I think I'm just mentally
trying to put as much distance between

me and my writing as I possibly

Jude: can.

Gosh, it wasn't bad.

It wasn't bad.

Trey: It maybe at the time it
feels like one of those things.

If I go back and read it, I will
just like internally implode

from reading my own writing.

Jude: Everybody's has to start somewhere.

I know

Trey: everybody has.

I know I did a review on the first
Avengers and I'm curious to find

out what I said about it, but

Jude: that's what we do.

We know that all of you, and we
talk about that review on the pond

Trey: and you remember how I
mentioned, oh, the reason I

Jude: know so many people right
now, smiling and nodding their

heads is like, yes, please do that.

Cause I, I remember you did
a review in the Avengers.

Trey: Yeah.

I think.

Uh, venture

Kevin Fike.

He's been stalking me since the beginning.

Oh no.

Well, I was going to say, because
the whole reason I got away

from, uh, writing reviews and
reviewing in general is because.

I w I was younger than he was part
of like that whole edgy thing.

And I noticed part of
like, like, cause it's fun.

Like it's fun to dunk on stuff.

Like when you don't like it.

And it was a slippery slope.

And I started to realize like I was doing
that more than actually reviewing stuff.

So I just pulled the plug on it
because that's not what I wanted to do.

And I feel like I've gotten better about
that, of like talking honestly, and

more about what I like and less about
what I don't like, but all that to say,

I feel like I can remember an impulse
in me writing that Avengers review.

They'd be like, I don't wanna let
people know how much I like this.

Cause I want to seem like I'm kind
of distant, cool about the events.

So I know I, yeah, I might quit
an episode if we actually do.


Jude: Well, you know what?

Well, it's funny though, cause you
say that and we do, and that was a

struggle for me last, uh, I gonna
say last week, but from when this

airs, the, the party Thor is I didn't
like the episode at all and really.

Yeah, really like, oh, I told
my buddy Shawn, you know, he's

like, he's like, I don't know how
you're going to record on that.

And this was the Friday and I was
like, dude, last night was painful

and was like, I was like, if it
wasn't for the pod, I might've turned

that episode off and not finish it.

Trey: Anyways, but as far as it being
painful, one quick little thing,

I open when we ended that episode,
because that episodes come out and

like, I introduced him to like leech.

I can't believe we've never
done a review episode with you.

I had every impulse in the world
at the end of that recording to

be like, well, Lisa, I hope we
get to do a review episode with.

Jude: Yeah,

Trey: thankfully, she's a great
sport and she's in on it too.

Like we've all been just kinda like
throwing little comments about it, but

it's going to be one of those things
where we just kind of like lock it behind

a door and never think about it again.

Jude: Oh my gosh.

But, okay.

But here's the thing though.

Uh, part of the drive, uh, for wanting
to be positive, you know, and trying to

find that is, you know, being cognizant
of, okay, listeners, they come here

to listen because they enjoy the MCU.

Uh, but it was also your experience
streaming that that's really driven,

driven in terms of when, um, and just
taking that idea of like, Hey, other

people, like, you know, you didn't want
to dunk on games cause other people, even

if you didn't like it, other people work
hard on it, you know, like this is their.

They're babies or brainchild.

And they put that out into the world and I
don't have to like everything that people

put out into the world, but like the work
and the talent that goes into something

like that is incredible, you know?

And that, that alone needs
to be respected, you know?

And that's, and that's what, you
know, where I felt bad, you know?

And, and, and it's like, You know,
and when we talked about it with

Tara, the whole, sometimes, you know,
when you love some things, you are

critical of it because you love it.

You know?

So yeah,

Trey: yeah.

That episode, that was one of the
first things we did with Tara.

And it has become, I think, one of
the most important episodes that we've

ever done, because we have referenced
it so many times and I'm so thankful.

That was the first thing we did.

Oh, yeah.

But no, you know, as far as that, like
trying to find the positivity in it,

um, one of, I don't know if I've ever
actually talked about it in the podcast,

I've mentioned it to you before, but one
of my favorite, uh, podcast is called

the film cast and they specifically,
they talk about movies, but they have a

section at the beginning where they talk
about like what they've been watching.

So it really encompasses everything
and they of course have a.

A wide range of opinions and what
they like, what they don't like.

And one of the things that they do that
I absolutely love and would love to find

a way to incorporate it without just flat
out stealing it is at the end of their

main review, the host will say something,
well, those have been our thoughts, but

at the end of the day, it is amazing
that any film was made at all and we

respect the talent of such and such.

They list the creators.

And so.

Like you can, you can go out into that
critical end, but we have to keep in mind,

like people put their heart into this and
if it didn't work for you, that doesn't

diminish the talent that went into it.

Jude: Yeah.

Well, and I mentioned your,
your, your experience streaming.

Um, well, I'll leave the story to you
if you want to say it, but I'll buy it.

Well, I just say my experience of it
was, uh, Uh, attached to streaming,

uh, the, well, what was the song?

Thunder and lightening.

Imagine dragons.

Imagine dragons.


So like, I, I just at first.


But after a while, imagine
dragons, I just couldn't do it.


But I remember an article or
something that came out where

it was some other artist.

That publicly, like talked bad
about them and their music.

Um, and then the lead singer, I
don't remember his name, but came

out and he was like, look like, why
would you do that to a fellow artist?

You don't have to like my stuff,
but like, you know, and, and

talked about his own mental health
struggle issues with those things.

And the idea of like, because his group,
uh, The trendy thing to do was to not like

them, you know, and the, and the music.

And like, he's like my kids go to school
and they're like, your dad's music sucks.

Like, you know, and it's like, no kid
has to, should have to mess with that

just because it's the trendy thing to do.


I, you know, and, and that really
kinda changed my perspective of, of

thinking about how to be critical
about things and making sure I'm being

critical for the right reasons, then
things I'm critical over or worth, or

where do the being critical, you know?

Um, and understanding that a
lot of times that means it just

didn't work for me, you know?

Um, so yeah, and that's, so that
was like one of my experiences

of just like, oh, okay.

Trey: And I think something that people
like we as a society need to learn.

Like, I don't think there's anything
wrong with dunking on something like that.

Like, I'll be honest and we can cut
this if you, if you don't like we

do it all the time, like you and
I we'll text stuff like dunking on

an episode, if we really didn't.

But we take the time to really format
in a way that's more respectful.

And I think the difference is
people don't realize the reach

of something on the internet.

So even though your example with
imagine dragons was like, oh, appear.

And it got back to them.

There's a level of comfort.

I think that people have just putting
stuff on the internet that, I mean,

it can snowball, like, I mean,
the right amount of people can.

Parents something that said, and
it just grows and grows until

it's no longer controllable.

So that's the responsibility.

I think that we try to maintain here on
the podcast, which segues me into the

streaming story, where I was playing
a video game called hello night.

And it was on paper.


Designed for me, it was exactly what I
liked in video games, the right amount

of difficulty, uh, it was screaming
my name, but when I started to play

it, I just was not connecting with
it at all, just because of one little

aspect of it with the navigation and
the map that just didn't work for me.

And so I kept trying to play at trying
to find a way to connect with it.

As I was doing that and trying to force
it, I was finding humor and dunking on it.

And again, I was giving into
that same impulse whenever

I was writing movie reviews.

And it's one of those things where I
thought like, okay, I'm, I'm obviously

throwing some punches, but hopefully
people understand enough that like, oh,

you know, he's just going for the laughs.

And so after one, particularly,
I can't even remember it was,

but one particularly harsh dunk.

Uh, I thought, man, I forgot.

I tagged the creators on Twitter.

Wouldn't it be funny if one of them was
here and then somebody who was new to

that specific stream, just put an LOL.

And it just every like, like the camera
just zoomed in on my face, like in

my mind of like, this is the person
who works on the game, isn't it.

And I asked and they said, yeah, I worked
on the translations for some of it.

And I there's a part of me.

That's still dead in my
seat from that moment.

And knowing that somebody was there
and it was just like, it changed how.

R it shouldn't have changed because
I'd already known at that point, but

it reinforced that importance of light.

Hey, you know, be nice.

Jude: Yeah.

Yeah, no, I get it.

Uh, yeah, so it's a tough
lesson and I'm glad, I'm glad

that we tried to maintain that.

Trey: Yeah, and I'm sure
we'll make the mistake.

It'll happen, you know, with the
turnaround, with like trying to get

these out and, and putting your thing
out there, your, your episodes it's bound

to happen, but hopefully we'll, we'll
keep a check on it as we move forward.

And I think we have, I don't think
we've really ever said anything.

That would be embarrassing
if anybody ever heard

Jude: it.

I don't think so.

Not yet.

Trey: Not yet.

Jude: I mean, it's, it's
bound to happen at some point.

I hope not, but you

Trey: know, I mean, I guess, you know,
the MCU keeps putting out great stuff.

It's hard to embarrass yourself when you
generally like all the swings they take.


Oh man.

You know, I was, I was going to circle
back because you had mentioned that

we haven't done a deep dive on black
widow and of course, Sean cheek is that

hasn't even been widely accessible yet.

Something else that's
been sticking out to me.

Uh, since the last time we did
the meta episode is the original

Genesis of this podcast was like,
Hey, you know, we like the MCU.

If we time this out, right.

We can cover every movie week to
week leading up to black widow.

And of course, I'm not
going to rehash that story.

Everybody knows about the delays
and whatnot and how we change.

But it's been interesting to me that
the premise was to cover the movies and

the movies have taken a back seat to
what we do because it's more of the week

to week Disney plus shows that we're
covering here rather than the movies.

And I don't know, I was just, I
guess, part of the med episodes

is talking to you about those.

Have you thought about that?

Like, has that been weighing on
you not getting back to it yet?


Jude: actually.

You know well, and it's interesting.

I think we over estimated underestimated,
we estimated in the wrong direction,

whichever one, it was that like, I'm fine
with the way we decided to do the movies.


I'd like to why our approach.

I don't think we realize.

How fast these episodes would
start coming as they came.


Um, and, and the gap that would put
between our movie reviews, you know?

Um, so I, I liked that
they're spaced out, but yeah,

Trey: w because at this point
we've only covered for me.

The Ironman trilogy and captain
America, the first Avenger, you know,

here we are talking about not doing a
black widow or shanky deep dive yet.

And the next three movies that
we have planned, I won't say I'm

just not to lock us into anything,
but the next three movies we have

planned aren't those movies either.

So it's like, I don't know.

It's been, it's been
weighing on me for sure.

Man, how do we incorporate these new
releases on top of new release movies?

On top of the shows on top of the
movies we haven't gotten to yet?

Jude: I think it's, I think
it's what we call job security.

Like we still have the content
we're saving it for later, just in

Trey: case.

Well, do you think that Disney
plus shows will always be this.


Jude: not, I don't know because
I mean, I mean, and here's where

it's hard to tell is because the
streaming, the streaming services and

the nature of streaming is changing.

How we consume media content is changing
the consumer side and the industry

side so rapidly that, so for example,
like, you know, an ad COVID on top of

that Scarlett Johannson, right in the.

Okay, well, part of that is
like the industry has dealt

with this before, right?

Like DVD cells, VHS cells, right.

The cells after the movie's release.

And it's just probably been built
into their contract, you know, of

like how to handle that, going to
streaming as quick as black widow

did, you know, in that I think that's
something we're going to see more.

And I feel like the industry.

PayScale and contracts.

We'll probably adjust to that more
so than, oh, that's just not going

to happen as much as it used to.

Um, cause even before COVID haven't we
seen some where it was like a Netflix

original goes to the theater and that.

Trey: Yes.

It's been very few and
far apart, but there

Jude: have been, but
when it happens, right?


And, and I think that
that's what we're seeing.

And, um, that's part of what this
lawsuit is bringing to light.

Uh, You know what I think, I think
Benedict Cumberbatch in commenting

on the talked a little bit about this
kind of trying to support Scarlett

Johannson, Nan also realized I'm
still employed now the hand that

feeds and treading treading lightly.

Um, but you know, so with that in mind,
well, and other things that the, just to

bring it up, what, I'm, what I mean by.

Changing the industry things like if
it's a TV show, Netflix producers.


Um, it doesn't matter.

I can keep using Netflix if
it's, if it's an original.



In the, in the contract.

So for example, you have a lot of
actors that have made their money

by, through television, right.

And those shows after air.

Goes out to syndication.

And so there's still some
money coming in, right.

Because of the syndication runs well,
when it's owned completely by say

Netflix, that's it, it's out there.

There's no syndication.

Right, right.

And so it is, it becomes a one-time
payment thing and there's not really

a check that they're relying on later.

So like the nature of.

What taking that job
means is, has changed.

And so in a, and all that to say
is like, are those Disney plus

shows going to keep coming as
quick as they are in, in, in there?

I mean, it's hard to tell the way that,
how the industry is going to change.

You know, um, and if they're
successful and they can marry

these two, the film successfully.


I don't see why they, I

Trey: didn't mean it.

You know, I didn't even think about
it in terms of like the, the marriage

between the films and the TV show.

Like, obviously this is not an,
uh, an area that I have any sort of

expertise in, but I got to admit.

The success of the movies financially
is what's helping bankroll some

of these projects on Disney plus.

And if they're going from almost
guaranteed, you know, close to a

billion, if not a billion dollar
box office hit to what is being

celebrated at now 300 million.

I think it got to their, like their, their
income has been dramatically decreased.

I think all these shows
are planned pre pandemic.

So yeah, I guess there is no telling.

What the future slate holds after we get
past that initial pre-planning, uh, in

Jude: a COVID world.

Oh, I think you're going to
start to see is, um, we'll take

Monica Rambo introduced in Wanda
vision, going over to the marvels.

Um, don't know if Monica Rambo
is going to show up and miss.


But like, I can see a world.

What was it?

Um, they've tried to shoot infinity
Warren in game at the same time and

then realized, okay, this isn't doable.

And they, they, they basically
spread those out, but like Lord

of the rings trilogy was shot
just all three back to back.


I mean, I can see a world now where.

You are interconnecting these two that,
you know, well, imagine the world like

this Falcon and the winter soldier, right.

And that budget is built into captain
America for, or let's put it this way.

Captain cap, Falcon, the winter
soldier, whatever you want to call it.

Season two.

Is built in to captain America for,
and so they shoot the series and

the, the movie at the same time.

And so contractually it, you're, you're
paying, you're getting paid for both.

It's, you know, you have the same
creative crew and one goes right into the

other, you know, seamlessly, um, Like,
I think that's, if it's successfully

meshed, you can, I can imagine those
types of things starting to happen.

Or if you want to have, you know,
your, your teaser, where you have

another character show up at the end.

Well, that characters Disney plus show.

Is filming in and that's just all
built in and you can carry that

character over from the movie, into
their show for an episode or two.

And so you get a more seamless handoff
and have that built into contracts, right?

Like I like, I, it would not surprise
me when that starts happening.

And I, I feel

Trey: like we've already gotten a.

Predecessor to that.

I mean, that's essentially what those
in tags are like from in the beginning

of phase one, wasn't it kind of like
a tradition that the in tag of one

movie was also shot by the director
of the next movie that came out.


So it's like, yeah, I think
you're, you're spot on that.

Like they've already done stuff like that.

It would make all the sense
in the world to take that next

step with the Disney plus shows.


Jude: mean, I mean, you're,
you're talking about balancing

the production of like, say Dr.

Strange and multi-verse
of madness and Loki or Dr.


And Spider-Man, Spider-Man no
way home in balancing a balancing

act of their productions overlap.

You know?

Um, it would not shock me if that hasn't
been on the mind if Kevin foggy super fan.

Trey: Oh man.


That'd be interesting to see
where they go in the next, what?

Five, 10 years.

And hopefully we'll still
be here during that.

Jude: Oh, absolutely.


You mean like, nevermind.

What do you mean?

Like the pod or like, like, like you hope
that somebody doesn't unplug the gate.

What do you mean living in?

Oh, okay.

All right.

Trey: I thought I was prepped for
another you're usurping me joke.

I wasn't ready for my
reality to meet you, sir.

Jude: I'm looking, I didn't
start a stopwatch, but we've

been recording for 53 minutes.

Trey: Yeah.

And we generally try and keep it
under an hour for the meta episode.

I've got one more thing I want
to mention before we sign off.

So unless you got anything,
I can end us with this.

Jude: No, I'm getting this.

Hasn't been bad for no outline.


Trey: yeah, the way I think,
you know, we just had.

I don't think it's going to be an Intacct,
but we got to make sure to make it an

intact for the final episode of what if
so it leads into this, but we like, what

three weeks ago now we were just cutting
up and we were like, oh man, I know it's

not tonight, but I want a hundred percent
feel a meta episode inside of somewhere.

And like, actually, so now I have two
things I wanted to, we almost made a.

What, if not, what if episode,
a Metta episode with inside

one of our, what if reviews?

But it just never came to
fruition, but that would have

been so fun to see if we did

Jude: that.

That wasn't, that we
didn't have any effort.

It just didn't quite work
out as we thought we could.

Oh, of course.


Trey: Hopefully it didn't come
across on my end like that.

No, it was just like, oh, it's cause
like we've, we've been putting up bones.


Jude: click on her social.

I hear friend Daniel.

Now I want that episode.

Trey: We got to have the
friend Daniel defense.

We've got it all.

Our T's crossed our eyes.

If we promise Daniel
there's nothing there.

Oh man.

Uh, but you know, we, we put up bonus
clips on social media, so you, you

can see the starts and stops and the
in-between conversations that we have.

And there was this one night where we just
were having one of those nights where.

We went, we started off
already in a loopy place.

We're like, okay, we need
to start the episode.

We started the episode we needed to break.

And then we would continue conversations.

We started from the beginning
and we did that throughout

the entirety of the episode.

But, uh, yeah, that,
that, that tickled me.

Jude: Yeah.


And there was like a 20 minute break
because I had to go put my kids to bed.

And so on the audio way forward,
there's like a 20 minute gap.

Trey: You know what I was so looking
forward to, because you said you were

going to look at it, but once we found
out there was nothing there, you, you,

I'm sure you just didn't go through
it, but if you would have made it to

the silence, there was a bit in the
middle where it's like, I'm muted.

Technically, Jude can't hear me.

I would love if he's doing the same
thing on his end and I can't hear it.

Jude: See, that's what you're thinking.

I just wanted to go back and
listen to him and see if my

closet was haunted, but okay.

Trey: I'm the ghost hunter class.

I was just muted.

Jude: Oh my gosh.


Trey: man.


Final thing.

I was talking to a friend about this.

You know, I'm still measuring out my own
feelings of going to the theater safely.

Like as hard as we get into the colder
months with COVID and whatnot, uh shonky

was kind of like my, my last comfortable
one as things are still pretty warm here.

And I've been measuring what I would do.

I don't know what I'm going
to do for the internals, but

I've already made up my mind.

I'm going to try and rent a
theater for Spiderman three, and

it's pretty reasonable that I
can invite up to like 30 people.

And I've been planning it with a local
friend and we've been going through

all this info, like this trouble.

I've been looking up online trying to make
calls and see what all needs to be done.

And finally, I was talking
to him today and I said, you

know, it would be absolutely.

And he goes, what?

And I said, if I go through all
this, I reserve the theater.

I get the 30 people that went
to go and we all celebrate my

birthday, which is December 14th.

And then the movie comes out the 17th
and we end up having a repeat of the

third Raimi Spider-Man movie, where I
also gathered people for my brother.

And it sucked this time.

There will be 30 people.

Jude: Oh my gosh.


Don't check.

Please don't

Trey: oh, man, I need to double check.

I've told this story about how
Spider-Man three ruined my birthday.

Maybe it was just a random gathering
with friends, but I'm fairly certain

it came out around my birthday,
but that would be hilarious if

that's what ends up happening.

Jude: Yeah, please stop.

Oh, no, it did not come
around around your birthday.

It didn't when it come up.

And, um, may June.

Trey: Okay, well then,
okay, look, there we go.

The jinx is broken.

It didn't happen.

It was just a random gathering of
event where I disappointed my friend.

Jude: Okay.

Think big sigh of relief.

Trey: Maybe I shouldn't have ended that
story because if it does suck, people

are going to point back to this podcast.

Hey, any publicity is

Jude: good.

The Mandela effect will kick
the Mandela facial kick in.

And all of a sudden I heard
this episode once before, and it

seems to be missing a segment.

Trey: Oh, now everybody decided
to reach out to us on social

media and saying I'm 74 episodes.

And this is the episode
y'all decide to tweet it.

Oh good, man.

I love the meta episode.

I don't care if it's indulgent.

Jude: You know what?

Sometimes the men episode
is like our vacation.

It's the podcast.

It's self

Trey: it's self care.

I love what you said.

The last one, the med
episode is self podcasting.

Self care.

Jude: Yeah.


Trey: I think, I think that's it.

Thank you all for indulging us.

You got any more?

You want to add on Jude?

Jude: Be safe, everyone.

Trey: I got nothing.


Be safe.

We'll see you around.

I, I, it's weird.

How do we in meta episodes?

Do we do the like, Hey,
follow us on social media.

Jude: I think we should.

I think Nick

Trey: Sandy, of course I would never end
an episode without thinking Nick, Sandy.

Well follow us on social media at


Jude: you need to know.

Trey: Oh, let's do that.

Let's let's switch roles.

You, you do this, I'll do the

Jude: discord and rating.

So please be so kind.

I can't do you, uh, you know, follow us,
Adam, see, you need to know on Instagram

and Twitter, uh, or if you've long form
is your preference at MC you need to

know at Gmail, no, not at empty empty.

You need to, uh, drop
us a line and tell us what you think.

Um, we're looking forward
to hearing from you.

Trey: Yeah.

And if you are enjoying these
episodes, make sure that you leave

us a rating and review on whatever
podcasting platform that you listen to.

Uh, it goes a long way in helping
promote the podcast, as well as giving us

valuable feedback to make better episodes.

And of course, if you'd like to
join our discord, we've got a

link to that in the show notes.

Uh, there's a lovely community of
people who are interested in the MCU

as much as we are, as well as you
pointed out at the last recording.

Just pop culture in general.

So if you're looking for a community
to get excited about things with,

uh, click that link, come join us.

It'll be a great place to hang out.

And we do have spoiler roles to help
prevent spoiling things for other people.

So if you want a place to be able to
talk about it without having to worry

about spoilers, make sure you go to
the role of sign and click the emoji

Jude: for this.

Yeah, it has always got a think.

Nick Sandy, for his wonderful rendition
of the Avengers theme song that we so

graciously did for us, uh, check out his
work on SoundCloud, Ian, his photography

on Instagram links are in the show notes.

Well, thank you everybody for listening.

I think that's going to do it.

Thank you for doing the med episode tray.

Thank you.

We'll see you all next week.

Is that what

that is?

That's an episode

Trey: was that are you
persecuting me doing a Mario

versus maybe it's an episode.

It's usually done.

So was phase one of our podcasts.

Come on.

I mean, I do.


That's an episode now.

Jude: Oh yeah.

It's boom.


I don't know what done
Joe came up to mind.


Trey: haven't done done
so since the Daredevil

Jude: days funny is that like,
this is just a natural end.

Yeah, I can't say the
second word, Frank, Daniel.

Uh, but I did that on purpose.

I said, I can't say the second word.

It's only an end.


Trey: I put, since when
do I listened to friend D

oh man.

No, I was going to say, I love, you
know, I talked about like the long

wait to the queue and the theme song.

If we cued the theme song now.

Jude: Oh, there you go.

Trey: Well, we just paid out on the.

Do what you want.


Jude: editing.

Oh, this is my edit.

Oh, is it mine?


Trey: don't know.

Who knows?

We'll figure it out.

Fade out.

Join our Discord here
As always, share with a friend
and shout out Nick Sandy